I need a clarification on Perimeter weapon deployment. Can I place my Mad Traps or Koalas in the ZoC of an enemy camouflage marker? I found this: Is an enemy camouflage marker a trooper?
no, but you cannot deploy in the ZoC of an enemy marker trooper anyway, not because the perimeter weapon rule, but the camo rule
Do you have a quote from the wiki for me? I found you cannot deploy a mine next to a camo marker, but nothing on revealed troopers.
If you're against an army that you suspect has infiltrators/impersonators/foward deployers, there's an argument to pick deploying first, just so you can deny them deployable zones with your Koalas/Mines/etc... I had a game against Ariadna, in the mission Supplies, where actively deploying first was very useful.
N3 Frequently Asked Question FAQ Version: 1.1 Q: Can a Camouflage Marker prevent that an enemy trooper from reverting to the Camouflaged state? If the Camouflage Marker were a Mine, would prevent it too? A: Yes, no matter if it is a Mine or a real trooper, as the Camouflage trooper trying to Camouflage again doesn’t know. Related Pages: Camouflage, Camouflaged, Mine
@Mahtamori This does not answer my question. The Camouflage trooper section is refering to a revealed trooper, possesing the Camouflage ability is trying to hide again. My question is in regard to a marker, not to a revealed trooper with the ability to use camouflage skill.
I must admit that I am not able to find where it was that rule. I remember some time ago that it was the only way to deny some deploy to an impersonator, but cannot find it now, sorry
Read it again. It answers your question by answering a related question. No where does it say that a trooper stops being a trooper while they are in Marker state, because of this, your Perimeter carrying trooper doesn't know whether the enemy Camouflaged entity is a trooper or not. Edit: What the FAQ says is that a trooper attempting to camouflage must consider a hostile camo token to be a Trooper, therefore the camo token is considered a Trooper.
Where does it state that it has to be a trooper that prevents you from reverting back to camo? Emphesis mine. Don't get me wrong, I guess you're right, but I still want to have a clear rules text to the question of camo markers can prevent me from deploying my Koalas or Mad Traps right next to them. Especially because Perimeter weapons do not react to camo markers in ZoC.
It's perhaps too basic. First and foremost, you know that a trooper is in fact a trooper. Then you put this trooper into camo state. Can you find any rule that says the trooper ceases to be a trooper when it is in camo state? As far as I know, that doesn't exist. Second, spending an order on a trooper to activate it and move it can only be done on a trooper, so spending an order on the camo marker to declare Move is something you're already doing, which means you're already indirectly answering your onw question. Then you need to consider that a weapon such as a mine doesn't have LOF, though the FAQ says that while camouflaged, even if you as a player knows that the camo marker is in fact an AP Mine, the trooper trying to camouflage has to consider that there could be a trooper under the enemy camo marker. So, stacking all of these together, and you can probably find more cases where a camo marker is still treated as a trooper if you really dig into it, then yes a camo marker will prevent you from deploying a MadTrap in its ZoC - even if you know positively 110% that it's a mine because the order right before that enemy Razor declared AP Mine and placed that camo marker there and you're now trying to use Baggage to resupply your Moran.
I have to agree with Mahtamori. The reason for bringing up the 'recamo' rules is that it sets the precedent: You have to presume that the camp marker is a real trooper. Otherwise you get untenable information leakage situations. Especially during deployment, it's not going to work if you can place a perimeter weapon down and use it to politely ask "Is that a mine under that camo marker?" And remember that you're not allowed to deploy with enemy troopers in your ZoC: When deploying these Perimeter Items, no enemy trooper can be inside their Zone of Control. The player can check the ZoCwhen deploying them and adjust their placement to keep this rule. Otherwise, if due to a Dispersion or to the Deployment conditions the player cannot avoid having any enemy troopers inside his ZoC, Perimeter Items cannot be deployed, and the player must consider them wasted. A trooper in the Camo state is still a trooper.
I'll play it that way, because I don't like discussions at the table. But I still don't follow your argumentation. Deriving from the re-camo ARO is not clear imho, because both examples are for the camouflage marker. If something is in a camouflage marker state, you have to pretend it could be a mine or a trooper under the marker state. My question does not come from the fact that mines are not troopers, it comes from that question if markers count as troopers.
No, a marker is not a trooper. What it hides may be a trooper, and your trooper that's trying to deploy Perimeter weapons have to assume there might be a trooper there, which causes them to not be allowed to place the Perimeter weapon there. Not because of the marker, but because of what it is hiding. So, can you place a Koala in ZoC of an enemy Camouflage Marker? No, because they may be hiding a trooper. Can you place a Koala in ZoC of an enemy Impersonation Marker? No, because they are hiding a trooper. Can you place a Koala in ZoC of an enemy Mine Marker? Yes, because they and sooo many other markers never represent nor hides troopers.
I'd love to see the @ijw perspective on this, so I can give it a rest. There is a lot of assumptions involved in the interpretation. And I don't like the idea that a Shas or Haqq player can prevent me to deploy my O-Yoroi TAG in my DZ.
My perspective matches Mahtamori’s. A trooper in a marker state is still a trooper, and being able to use your Perimeter Items to discern which markers contain troopers and which contain Mines goes against both Private Information and the directly-equivalent precedent for recamouflaging having to treat all enemy markers as if they might be troopers.
Sorry for the necro but; Am I allowed to place stem or set them in Stand by Mode in ZoC of an Impersonator then? Bob is a friendly after all and only Camo and TO are mentioned
You got it in the last line. Only Camouflage and Hiding Markers prevent Stand By, Holo or Impersonation does not.
Does that mean that a Mine would be able to claim cover while in marker state? As it would otherwise be able to let you discern extra information otherwise?
