Well, the higher-CC models all got a major increase in the N2->N3 change. Something like +3CC per point of cost increase.
Indeed they did. But for some reason that wasn't translated across to everything. But simply giving +2 CC for every point instead of +1 ('till you reach the magic break point, which seems to be around CC 19-20) makes the most sense in terms of value.
I think it bears repeating that I can't actually find any evidence that a specific value of CC costs a specific amount of points. It does very much seem like CC cost at lower levels is assigned through comparison rather than being tied to the actual value. Basically, Yu Jing has sufficient amount of... arbitrary... CC values that it should be easier to trace a difference between 14, 15, 16, 17, and 18, but it seems a lot more consistent that simply "higher than comparable unit = +1 point" is the real truth because any other deconstruction tends to be off. I do think that paying that point, should result in a CC value that is roughly as useful as Specialist Operative or +1 BS or a Chain-Colt (all three roughly 1 point abilities (for BS values under 13)) and that means at the very least +3, but realistically more because CC doesn't have burst.
That's really interesting. I definitely agree that it would make the zhanshi more interesting at least if their cc was 17-18. If not they should just cost 10 points.
I agree that if there are no changes coming to CC, then they should go up. But i'm really hoping they change CC altogether and everyone comes down a bit. Even so, they the CC tax is not worth it.
If N4 changes melee to have a burst greater than 1 (say, by Martial Arts giving you additional dice), then CC scores can go back to what they were in N2. Otherwise, I see CC scores staying where they are for the most part.
I'd like that, it would allow CC specialists to go "John Wick style" and fight more than one enemy at the same time with one order, instead of having to kill those one after the other.
That's what I want. Make CC a bit similar to shooting but must be in B2B. Existing CC comes down, everyone has Burst 1. Each level of Martial arts +1 to burst. Other things can add to Dmg on the weapon. Knife is -1 PH. How about some that are +1 or 2 to PH?
There's something weirdly appealing and aesthetic in having a unit have 20+ CC score. Specially the sweet numbers like 20 (on a d20 game) and 25 (because it """breaks""" the d20 and is the biggest score). I think melee can be changed, but I'm more on the camp where I'd like CC units to have some form of mobility, provided by their CC prowess or otherwise, instead of more dice and lowers numbers (which doesn't help at all with delivery)... More dice or higher dice are for the most part almost the same statiscally but lower CC score are not as "pretty".
I’m big on simplicity and keeping the rules the same on as much as possible. I don’t like you have one set of rules for shooting, and one set of rules for close combat.
The rules aren't really that different, if you get your BS above 20 it works the same way, it's just much more rare (linked Hospitaller Knight BSG can get up to BS26 vs a targeted enemy :P ). I like the differentiation, CC feels different to shooting even though it's using the same framework, and it can be very high reward if you can get into it.
I dislike the CC system simply because it makes CC too binary. By necessity of making it sufficiently deadly to be worthwhile it moves the good units up to crit-boosting levels of CC which has the side effect of extremely heavily shifting probabilities for each additional point of CC. It is in short impossible for a Shaolin or Ninja to gain a melee advantage over for example Mushashi, forcing them to engage in ranged combat when facing each other instead of moving the inherent advantage to the model THAT IS TAKING THE INITIATIVE. (Sorry for caps, bold is difficult on mobile) It's like... it's about as reasonable as ranged combat working on full burst in reactive as well if you think about it - it'd largely make low performance units pointless unless plentiful enough to overwhelm.
Is this a feature or a bug though? Is having a high CC intended as a deterrent to lower CC troopers engaging you in fisticuffs? Should a no-name monk be able to get a CC advantage over the greatest swordsman who ever lived?
Those no name monks aren't push-overs in any sense of the word, and yes they should absolutely murder the greatest swordsman in all history if he allowed himself to be caught flatfooted by highly competent individuals. Should he be flat-footed by a no name Keisotsu, though? Considering what Martial Arts and an inherently higher CC value does (even if said CC value is "only" 17 to a Keisotsu's 13) we're still talking about the equivalent of the same Keisotsu shooting a Core Kamau in cover at long range - initial large ability difference and stacking MODs will still beat burst. It is ranting a bit, but there is no good answer. As long as the CC system remains as simplistic as it is without any heed given to facing, viability of Engage, or active turn, it's going to be impossible to make yourself a tactical advantage for engaging in melee that wasn't already decided by Interruptor at the faction design stage - the only challenge is navigating the ranged threats to get there. And I guess that's fine as long as decent melee units don't need to go toe to toe. But at the same time it also means that any of those who aren't among the top 100 individuals ever born/manufactured and trained for melee, for any of the other trillions of soldiers trained in melee combat, melee is going to be a pointless exercise in wasted orders - regardless of who you're trying to fight. And that's kind of disappointing. Edit: grammar and a couple of clarifications
I mean. Suppressive Fire, Total Reaction, Neurocinetics and Link Teams all exist and do essentially what you're talking about here.
They aren't quite equivalent, but they do serve the purpose of illustrating how dumb the situation actually gets when you remove the active turn advantage. It's fine for a few models that get somewhere above average with the help of a Hacker and that everyone can access and where you actually can navigate around them thanks to range bands being a thing.
As a guy who typically likes CC armies in wargaming, I think Mahtamori hits the nail on the head. In 40K, you get the extra dice for charging, in WMH, you get bonuses. Stuff that makes taking initiative worthwhile, and I agree that's lacking in Infinity. I feel like CC in infinity should be lightning fast and not afraid to pile on the burst and with MODS that generally favor the person initiating close combat. Special Skills and Equipment can swing that around, but that should be where it starts, IMO. CC should be a viable strategy, especially with armies that seeming focus on it.
The Active turn advantage is being able to decide not to engage the swordmaster in the thing he's spent his entire existence perfecting, and shoot him instead. Or has it been too long since everyone saw Raiders of the Lost Ark?
