Pilots at end of game?

Whether or not a Pilot counts as points isn't relevant here, as points don't determine who controls the antenna. What does matter is whether or not the Pilot is considered to be in a Null state due to the TAG being unconscious.

I'm still not clear on that, to be quite honest. I could see arguments going either way for the situation you are describing.

 

RAW I'm fairly certain that they can claim the objective. Controlling the antenna requires a Troop in a non-null state in contact at the end of the game. Nothing about the rule for pilots would cause it to be in a null-state at the end of the game, "surviving" or "casualty" are not null states, but terms used when calculating points worth of models on the table.

 

The Null state would be that the TAG is Unconscious.

 

Sure, but the Pilot is still a trooper, who is not in a null-state.

 

Is he, though? That's my point. TAG is unconscious, Pilot is an alternate troop profile of TAG. The only reason you can activate the Pilot is because the Manned rule explicitly allows you to do so. I'm really not sure if the pilot is supposed to count as a Null state at that point or not, much like how a Sepsitorized trooper can still receive orders while being in a Null state.

 

The Manned rule let's you spend an order on the unconscious TAG to get the Pilot out. Once he's out, he's his own trooper. The only thing that keeps him from generating orders after that is the clause under Pilot stating so.

 

If the Pilot counted as being in a Null State, then that could have a lot of weird implications, like counting as a dead lieutenant, or you could simply take a beacon from an enemy pilot (and you could freely move out of combat with them), they cannot hold supply boxes, etc. The rules get really funky if somehow it's decided that the Pilot, which can walk around and do things, is also considered null.

 

No, it's an alternate profile for the same Trooper. This is established fact. What is questionable (and has come up multiple times and seems to be still unresolved) is what states carry over between the troop profiles in this weird rules case.

 

Sorry, I realized my first post wasn't well worded. That is true.

This is the better answer, which is backed up by how Army tracks the TAG and pilot.

One point that does lend credence to the opposite opinion is the clause in Manned where:

If the TAG or Vehicle figure of a Manned trooper whose Pilot dismounted enters the Dead state, remove both the TAG or Vehicle and the Pilot from play.

So they would share Dead but not anything else?

 

I don't think they are necessarily "sharing" dead, it's a special clause in a rule which is prompting this, not some reversion to underlying mechanics, the pilot is removed because a rule has told you to do it.

I think in fact, the clauses in Pilot are illustrative of the general case if you regard them as the exception that proves the rule. If the null state of the TAG transferred to the pilot it would seem entirely unnecessary to specify that the pilot of an unconscious TAG does not generate orders, we are told already in the fundamental order pool rules not to count the orders of null state models, it would seem to suggest that the pilot is not a model in a null state then.

It's admittedly not concrete, and I'd love some more answers about Pilots (I'd also love to see pilots not die of sadness when their TAG blows up given remote pilots don't) but it's what I'm most comfortable with given the information we have.

 

Pilot don't share their TAG's Dead state - if the TAG is Dead, the Pilot is simply removed from play.

 

The pilot is so depressed that the TAG is dead that they take their KHD and go home.