I dont know about you guys but I have a hard time making an IA list with 2 combat groups. Is a second group worth it if your group of 10 is going to get stripped 2 orders if you go first?
Yep, there are some viable double combat group IA lists built around this core. The ones I've seen use the second group for dedicated support purposes but the proposed 'slot in' approach could use it as well if someone liked the idea and wanted to churn through command tokens.
Arguable. I mostly use the tactic when playing certain tohaa and Aleph lists that more heavily rely on being able to spear through a few key models on turn 1 to feel comfortable moving on with my game plan. The thing that I really enjoy about it is it feels very good to have the exact tool you need in the place you need it. No more grumbling Oh I took a Hac Tao and I should have taken a Liu Xing for this table. And generally speaking, the sort of surprise models gain in some order efficiency in exchange for their theoretical order gap in the game. So you lose two orders but you're guaranteed to have the tool you want. And you gain in some additional efficiency just after.
I've thought about it. I generaly use the tactic in vanilla Aleph and Tohaa as I mentioned. Heres a list I was considering for my IA though. I'll admit I didn't love it. Invincible Swiss Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 2 1 HAC TAO HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 68) LIÚ XĪNG (Specialist Operative) MULTI Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 38) WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) GROUP 2 9 DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29) SON-BAE Yaókòng Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17) ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38) ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34) HǍIDÀO Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army You can do this in Vanilla though which I think is pretty nifty. Swiss Army Knife ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 3 TIGER SOLDIER Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29) MAJOR LUNAH Viral Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29) NINJA Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 35) GROUP 2 9 1 SÙ-JIÀN Spitfire, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 59) RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20) DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29) XI ZHUANG Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, MadTraps / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) KǍNRÈN Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 29) MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
I don't see ol' reliable aerosol screens in PanO arsenal either (with a single exception). It doesn't mean YJ getting Jammers or PanO getting smoke would be not fluffy, which is what I'm talking about.
I think Hecaton's point there is that Jammers are dumb electronic warfare operated by verifiable idiots. It is the electronic warfare equivalent of a suicide bomber (which I've been told was what Muttas used to be in when they were first introduced) As much as I hate Jammers, I'd expect Yu Jing to have equipped Keisotsu with them and Kuge to double down on that gear post-Uprising. I'd expect Ariadna, the verified low-tech faction, to use them to punish high-tech factions reliance on comms equipment. I wouldn't expect Cubes-Are-Mandatory Pan-O to have them...
To be fair, that seems to be Infinity take on jammers. In reality EWar stations, especially directional ones (as opposed to a few micro-schemes tacked onto a battery and a couple of wires) are fairly complex devices, often carried by dedicated vehicles crewed with specialists. Granted, nothing stops you from making a dumbfire variants for non-specialists to use in expected situation since you can't be sure your operators will be able to re-adjust their gear in such a case. Which is probably what Haqq does. As for being used by idiots, well. Simple stuff tends to be reliable when it comes to fields in which said stuff is simple. And if it works, it works no matter how much resources your side has and if you're idiot or not. If anything, they'll be happy to spend money and use specialists somewhere it's absolutely necessary rather than somewhere a bare minimum will do for the time being.
And that's the thing. The fluff describes those devices as requiring the users to be a bit addled to use them because of their side-effects and sure enough they also describe tthe users as addled, and it describes the devices as fairly outdated tech in the 23rd century (or whenever the setting takes place). However, it is odd that the second and third most information device reliant factions of the Human Sphere has them when they have so much collateral damage while the least reliant and lowest tech doesn't. We're not talking about gameplay implementation here, it's fairly obvious this fits Haqq like a glove, but these devices would make ideal low-tech contenders for the e-war scene for factions like Ariadna and Tohaa since they destroy hacking devices and a few other things.
Tbh it's easier to rewrite or just ignore stupid piece of fluff that was brewed up as an excuse why these things aren't widely available, rather than trying to base availability to factions on it. Not to mentions that different factions probably use different designs to roughly the same (gameplay-relevant) effect.
This is true and I seem to recall the fluff on Jammers being even more disparaging towards them, but it's still not like Nomads or Pan-O are missing indirect means of attack or defense. Ariadna, though, not only would it make sense there, but seeing how they lack indirect means such as SymbioBombs or Hacking, it would allow them to participate as it were in that scene without getting the full spectrum of hacking and without mercs.
FWIW, I really think PanO should have more Eclipse grenades available, but no regular smoke. IA, as the highest-tech force in Yu Jing, should also have Eclipse. I suspect that the PanO Jammers are a little fancier than the Haqq versions, better shielded users and less interference with PanO gear. Haven't I talked about the difference between two IED jammers in US service before? Maybe not in this thread? The Warlock jammer (has a gumdrop-shaped antenna cover) was broad-frequency and indiscriminate, it even jammed US comms. But the Warlock was something you could deploy quickly and relatively cheaply. It's replacement, the Duke jammer (has a long rod-shaped antenna cover) is set up to not jam the US radio comms.
I suspect a lot of the Ariadnan combat doctrine has been influenced by combat against Antipodes, so not a lot of attention was paid to things like electronic or communications jamming. If Ariadna did get jamming, I'd love for it to be featured on MRRF units. MRRF, thematically, was big on importing off-world tech... Loup-Garou ADHL are from Praxis, Viral from Haqq, and they had the highest access to MSV1 before it was proliferated to the other Ariadnan sectorials. Jammers would be a nice profile for Zouaves, if/when they're redone. Thematically, it's not surprising that Nomads and Haqq have some extreme personalities who are willing to use tech like that. Even if PanO's jammer isn't any safer, Zulu Cobra re depicted as being crazy enough to use them. The fluff is pretty clear that ZCs are not balanced personalities.
SEALs (and Royal Marine Commandos) aren't exactly sane. In fact, I'm pretty sure they test for sanity as part of the pre-screening, and nobody sane makes it to training!
