So, after something like 20+ games with the Libertos, I have to say that I feel like there's something very wrong with this unit... I'm getting Hac Tao/Ko Dali/Intruder-levels of work done with this unit and I literally never stand to lose anything when he dies. He reminds me of the Krakot Renegade but it's like they removed every single weakness of the Krakot and now we have something that's just over the top, IMO. And bear in mind that I (and many others, I'm sure) used the Krakot religiously before and while he was good, he wasn't overwhelming, mostly because he had several factors to keep him in check like: - No ability to take cover - No Marker state - Either limited DTW or limited FtF weapons - Needs a lucky MetaChem result to tank a crit or exchange templates (V:Dogged) He's essentially a Minelayer Naga on roids for barely a 1/3 of the cost. The problem that I have with him (except for the obvious) is not only is he very difficult to counter deploy (and provide VERY cheap DZ protection), he will often just sit in a secondary combat group and when you're done wreaking massive amounts of havoc with him, you then proceed to inform your opponent; "Well... now for the next Order Pool".. His alpha striking potential as well as the fact that you're nearly never punished for losing him, as he is extremely disposable, makes him debilitating for the internal balance of vanilla armies. Literally all vanilla armies (except for... who..?) will ALWAYS find that 1 SWC and 10 points somewhere, because he's simply too good to pass up. Quite frankly, I think his addition to the game in his current form is net negative for the meta. What's your thoughts?
Point formula is ok. CB knows what it is doing, if you don't like you know where the doors are. WB are also fine so git gud and l2p noob.
Well, as I play very few games (one or two per month, at max), I've only used it a couple of times and I've never had to face one. So far it has done very good work; a cheap Minelayer is always a great adition to any army. Not having Mimetism or ways to revert back to Camo makes it vulnerable once it is discovered but, as you said, you loose nothing if you just decide to use it as a suicide piece to take out some oponents. I don't know if it is deforming the meta (I'll have a tournament this weekend, I'll see then how prevalent it is), but it is indeed very powerful for its cost.
I nearly add him to all my lists in Tohaa, laying 2 camo marker nearly up to the middle of the table FD2 makes him already an awesome speedbump...
Didn't play much with or against him since I didn't play a lot of vanilla. But he seems to be a no brainer. Feedbacks I have from my community echo what you said. If you can take him, you do take him and he is super efficient. Maybe he is alright point cost formula wise. But that's too much efficiency (probably not to the level of hac tao or intruder) into one dirt cheap unit. I like the naga comparison. I guess that almost everybody that could take one in their army during last Inter - kraken master - did. How to solve that ? Maybe remove dogged to start with ... Would still be a great trooper.
Liberto rework I think taking away minelayer would already do enough, its still a really cheap camo marker
Maybe just not throwing super optimised 10 pts unit with ALL eligable discount cheats as a generic mercanry would be a good start ? Who knows!
I have not used it myself but had Libertos used against me in 2 games and in both it died without making much more impact than making me spend an order or two more, maybe because of all the years of playing Ariadna I know the camo game well enough
Yeah the Liberto is a such a braindead auto-include in every list. And Dashat gets two with Mimetism on top. There's almost no situation where 8 points for a camo marker is ever going to be a bad choice.
wasting two orders on a 10 point unit makes it already worth it in my eyes...and cause camo it easily can get turned to 4 orders, I never regretted taking one
I hate fighting against these guys. Their excellent defense is what drives me crazy... With a Chain Colt and shotgun and mines, you can't just knock them to Dogged and let them die... You really need to make sure they're dead, otherwise they continue to cause problems in ARO. So having to Discover, then get past their Mimetism + Hyperdynamics, and then get past their Dogged, is incredibly tiresome. The only balancing factor I see is the SWC cost on the minelaying profile. For some armies (not all, but some) that 1 SWC is expensive.
