We have one of those corridor tables in my meta and we play it with destructible walls. it opens up so many tactical options it's crazy. Also the look on your opponent's when the pointman to wildcat team koolaid mans his way through the wall and sets their fireteam on fire is priceless.
This is totally different from my experience. Smoke trick is an occasional tactic that is pulled out when someone gets too aggressive in their defense.
I'm more in @loricus' boat here. Out of the events I went to this year (I-4 Invasion, Rumble, Gateway Gauntlet, Krug, 2x20+ player events, many other 10-14 player events) I think I saw smoke+MSV in less than 20% of my games. Most of those were my plays when I was running vanilla CA at the beginning of the season. I just don't feel like it's an overly dominant tactic or strategy.
Yeah I think it was prevalent a lot when the game grew in n2, that smoke tactic, AD Rambos, guided missiles and TR bots were a kind of cyclic fad that has died off in one way or another. It remains a useful tool but there's more to the game than shooting stuff
It is really only good for popping TR bots and other solo operators and not really worth doing constantly, mostly due to it being order intensive and a lot of pieces having SSL2 these days.
In my experience almost every long range ARO that is good enough to need to specialize against is linked in a Core and has a weapon that deals 2-3 rolls per hit. Almost every list has it. It's one the biggest problem in the game IMO.
Regarding MSV: Currently BMV ignores surprise modifiers from impersonation, what if the same was added to MSV in regards to camo and it retained the current price. Then have the clause for surprise removed from sixth sense.
That might work as a patch but a new edition doesn't need to do things that way. That might not even make sense in context of the new rules. I wouldn't worry about the details of fixing something as much as just "I hope this issue gets resolved".
I'd be happy with that bonus proliferating down to lower levels, if msv 3 got some improvement. Back in previous editions MSV3 was probably singular most powerful piece of gear in the game, you could shoot camo markers without discovering them first, and a discover action revealed all camo in LoF (including things in hidden deployment). It was an immensely powerful ability and back then there was no white noise that made it a liability. In the current edition MSV 3 doesn't feel like it's powerful enough to justify it's significant (but reduced from previous editions) cost. I would greatly welcome being able to shoot camo without discovering first (even if you suffered a mod penalty as a compromise). As is spending a pile of points on an elite unit still looses out on order economy against camo spam, which is arguably what it is supposed to counter. Also the aro paradox of discover or shoot stings it just as hard as a mook without such powerful anti camo gear. Away I would welcome a buff to msv 3 with open arms.
I'm fairly sure models that cost 90+ points (and especially this ~130 pts model, or whatever it costs) or something were not exactly supposed to be bruteforced through without specialized equipment on a regular basis. People not caring about Fire, E/M, CC delivery, hacking or some anti-armor unless some of those tools go into their generic lists is more of a testament to current state of some of these models. Or not even thinking to strike against order pool, which doesn't require super-specialized tools, can tell you something about how much respect people have for a minimally supported TAGs based on their previous experiences. Basically, not much. But I take your meaning. If local Bakunin player comes for a game suggesting to use some Low Vis zones, I guarantee you this is going to raise an eyebrow or two :D Eh, to be honest Smoke+MSV2 stuff is just a flavour of shooting people in the face, which ultimately everyone in this game does, so you can say "everyone uses some version of mod stacking". There are others, with different advantages and disadvantages, but it ultimately boils down to mods. Ability to isolate targets while using MSV2 isn't always that useful though, as well as -6 in this era of defensive links. I'm not particularly convinced that trading MOV and a few points for a single increment in BS, ARM and BTS makes them much sturdier than Govads you've probably used during your HB days (or probably not because they are pretty situational, to put it mildly). I guess some access to DTWs can be nice, but that's basically about it.
Amusingly enough I got to watch that exact conversation play out at a distance once. It got... robust. And I believe also ended up including the suggestion that maybe native white noise zones would be a good inclusion to local tables. :P
I've played maps with low vision all "floor level outdoors" (dense fog), or with smoke or eclipse zones, different terrains and so (we even had "venecia 2.0" with lots of aquatic zones, bridges, boats and so, but that map was really bad dessigned and the owner decided to stop using it in the end). The lists change a bit with those extras, and no-faction gets a direct boost. But lots of people doesn't want to change their favourite lists.
The obvious nerf to msv I wanted was a reactive white noise dodge. Custodes and a select few other characters could finally defend against msv elites. Even better, but arguably too far, would be a way to keep a white noise zone up on the defense. I'd command token for a chance to turn it on at the start of my reactive turns. Or a new deployable. "If any model entirely within this devices ZOC comes under a bs attack by an attacker with msv, then replace this marker with a white noise zone. The attacker may finish their attack, but receives a -6 penalty for no visibility that their msv can not reduce. "
but albedo only works for the first round. Also, that would be a little overkill on troopers like Achiles
First, ODD is a powerful skill on its own and I don't see why would you gut its counters. Second and more important: nested skills must die in a fire. If you think specific unit needs that combination, just give them both.
after taking a look at the other posts about N4... we are of the least greedy... if CB decides to take ideas from the forum, we are doomed
