Yes, the Santiago change wasn't a buff at all, neither was the cost drop of the Hospitallers. The rework of the KotHS is absolutely a nerf too and the Seraph HMG is sooo garbage... We had a buff. The most massive one is surely the access to two SWC free CoC profiles and a third one equiped with a Spitfire where before the only solution to have one safe in the DZ was to forfeit his AD skill. But we had changes making Vanilla even more appealing than before and really easier to play. We have so much tools now it's disconcerting. We still have this problem of having 75% of our units with AVA1 while other factions can take multiple profiles of the same units in their Vanilla lists but I think it's not as frustrating as before.
And Varuna having all kind of tricks PanO never had before is not a buff either... I wouldn't be surprised if they get smoke soon (which, by the way, I think would be a lot more reasonable than some of the other buffs, I don't think "PanO can't have smoke because they got +1 BS" should apply anymore)
Well that's interesting. On one hand I keep hearing "BS isn't everything and HI's are vulnerable to hacking and stuff.' but on the other hand, having to fight a real HI (ARM 5 and so on) with BS 15 feels like fighting a one-man-core-link. Not really fun. (And fighting a BS14-Feuerbach-ORC in a cheap Fusilier Link isn't that funny either) So yes, I think PanO should keep some penalty for getting BS+1, but then there shouldn't be many other units with BS 15 around. Aleph got some, as well as CA. PanO got by far the majority so this might be okay.
Really? It's so hard to see that PanO with smoke is YuJing but much better? Only thing PanO is missing is smoke and a warband. Give that to them and automatically there's no point in playing YuJing, furthermore it becomes the best army in the whole game. Therefore why bother with other factions? Don't get fooled with O12, PanO has much more advantages than them and it's extremely well rounded. SOF exists, but that's one of the reasons ITS is a joke as a competitive tournament system.
No, PanO would not be a better YJ with access to smoke. I'm a bitter critic about how CB treats YJ, but you are sooooo wrong it hurts
Geckos were good and are good now I think it's definitely a buff for all TAGs and the cheaper ones were already much more usable, so I don't mind them costing more.
There are 3 units in all the Pano roster that have ARM 5 and are not TAGs; Joan v1, Father Knights and Swiss Guards. The cheapest is the Boarding Shotgun FK at 43 points, and the most expensive is the SG AHD at 70. They cost as much as a cheap 5 piece link, but have less wounds, in fact a FK has one less BS than a fusilier in a five man link. I say give the poor FK some smoke, so at least he can hide the shame of being outgunned by a fusilier.
... literally can't even. Because PanO Smoke would definitely be on a 5 point AVA MA3 Warband. Wouldn't ever end up being Eclipse on a fairly expensive Regular trooper with reasonable high pricetag. You know... so you would still have to think about maybe including one instead of facerolling 2-4 into every list. No one gives a shit about your YJ identity crisis meltdown over here. As far as your "concerns" are concerned better YJ would already exist anyway in the form of Aleph, Nomads, CA and O-12.
Oh, PanO whining, I like it: So the Swiss Guard is effectively a one-man-core. With TO and ARM 5. Much more easy to maneuver, heal and hide and so on. And because you have one costly father-knight profile you need smoke? The problem with PanO and smoke is not only the BS, it's because of the many MSV-2+ Units. An Aquila Guard in Smoke would be too nice. I say, it's okay as it is now. PanO's signature is BS 15 and they have by far the majority of these units. Yes, you can't hide in smoke, but have to clear the battlefield first. So what, that's what the high BS is for. Every faction needs some weaknesses. With Varuna many of the traditional PanO weaknesses are gone. Many new "nomady" profiles. PanO even whined Bolts usefull. Just live with it.
NO. It's the Internet, and a wargame forum to boot. We are bound by duty and custom to minimize any advantage our faction has, overstate any benefits other factions have, and whine incessantly if our faction doesn't have exactly the tools WE want, WHEN we want, and at the price point we want. And if we don't get it? WHINE, then whinge, then whine some more. Thus has it always been and thus it will always be.
Good, but if you call that whining you should check all my really whiny posts. They'll blow your mind. Now seriously, the "no smoke for Pano" handicap because of higher BS got a little outdated by now. The game has evolved so much, has so many new diverse skills and synergies that to keep on with that idea is obtuse to say the least. Pano may have more BS 15 units than the rest of the factions, but most of them are mutually exclusive. In the best case scenario, a Pano player can field 2 BS15 units effectively at the same time. The same thing can be achieved by Aleph or CA players. Besides, with all the link team bonuses and combos available now (which these so called BS15 units CAN'T use to their advantage, except Joan with the almost useless Crusader Fireteam), I think it's a bit silly to justify the no smoke for Pano policy with this argument.
This just isn't the case at all. PanO and Aleph have the same number of visor profiles. In NCA, PanO has one more thanks to the borrowed Deva SF. YJ and CA both have one less MSV2 and YJ lacks MSV3. I'm well past the point of wanting or expecting smoke in my army but the visor argument doesn't hold water and hasn't for a long time. And let's just put the Aquila in Smoke argument to bed too: ALEPH ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 2 MYRMIDON Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 25) ASURA MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 68) 0 SWC | 93 Points Open in Infinity Army
While we are at it might as well throw this into the mix too. Imperial Service──────────────────────────────────────────────────2 1 KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) HSIEN HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 61) 2 SWC | 66 PointsOpen in Infinity Army Not to mention the fact that it can be part of a Haris too, in case you want to season it with +1B.
To be fair, what has REALLY killed the "PanO with Smoke would be OP" argument is O-12. That argument is dead. Get a new record, this one is scratched.
N4 should get rid of that stupid interaction of Smoke and MSVs. So we can finally start talking about tactical appliance instead of shooting poor noobs who didn't know better than deploy their TR bots in front of a Smoke chugger and a MSV2 dude. Forget about the -6 MOD, that shouldn't be a thing. Only think about Eclipse if "PanO" and "Smoke" in the same sentence keeps you awake at night or wait for N4 to fix it.
And if PanO needs smoke just because Aleph and Yujing have smoke and MSV 2+, then where is the Nomads/Haqq/Ariadna TO HI with ARM5 and/or the BS15 Troops? If every faction needs everything, why not make them all the same? @Teslarod yes lately Eclipse is becoming more and more usefull with all the MSV-2 units around.
its a BS14 + MSV3 combo tho? edit: here's BS15 + MSV2 but you'll probably complain about the cost. ALEPH ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 2 MYRMIDON Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 25) MARUT Lieutenant (Strategos L3) MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower, Nanopulser / AP CCW. (3 | 120) KARKATA Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0) 3 SWC | 145 Points Open in Infinity Army
