Do i really need to look up every rule for you? http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Ghost_(G)#Ghost:_Jumper_L1 All the Proxies of a G: Jumper trooper must be in the same Combat Group, where they are counted as only one trooper.
We are doing circles now, IA beacon is the only fail for the 15 troops limitation, after we look at the rules that makes several troops count as one.
They only count as one trooper for the purposes of making the combat group. Doesn't say anything about this rule. And what about G: Servants and G: Synchs?
If it had said in the new ITS rules that G:Synch troopers and their controller count as one trooper for this purpose, I'd be more likely to believe you.
Ia beacons counts as troops for group and list composition (not writed but seen in the army builder) . But in game interactions, it use equipment ruling. I know that the rule should be more clear (specially if there is a tournements involved) but i think this is about common sense if you usually play infinity. You can't make a group of 10 troops + beacons beacuse they are equipment. But in game they act like equipment. Sane as when they say 15 orders mean 15 models that generate order, like we never saw before an impetuous leutinent aquiles in LI ganes.
The only reason LI works with AI Beacons is because of the AI Beacon rule itself. TW is going to need a fairly extensive writeup if it wants to accomplish the same thing. REQUIREMENTS The bearer of the AI Beacon must belong to a Combat Group, which cannot exceed the total amount of members, including the bearer of the AI Beacon. EFFECTS The AI Beacon provides one Regular Order to the Order Reserve of the Combat Group it belongs to. The bearer of the AI Beacon is considered a piece of Deployable Equipment, and not a trooper. It cannot be activated by Orders or AROs. The bearer of an AI Beacon must be deployed using the AD: Combat Jump Special Skill if it appears in its Troop Profile. In such a situation, the deployment of this piece of Equipment must be done in the Deployment Phase. The PH Attribute of the Troop Profile must be used only to perform the Deployment, unless any Scenario Special Rule says the opposite. The bearer of the AI Beacon counts toward the total number of Combat Group members. Although not a Trooper, the bearer of the AI Beacon counts toward Retreat! and Victory Points. AI Beacon is affected by the Loss of Lieutenant and the Retreat! rules, its Order becoming Irregular until such situations are cancelled. AI Beacon also interacts with the G: Jumper Special Skill. With the intention from Hellois, however, I'm perfectly fine using something like "order-generating troopers/equipment" for the limit until such time it is written more clearly.
Yeah, I will. I have to, because I organize a tournament and stuff like that comes up every. single. time. I'd rather have a wording that causes no questions than just "look, it's obvious what they meant there".
Hmm, digging a little deeper I think I see why they chose the language they did [emphasis added]: And the language from ITS11 [emphasis added]: What they didn't check was that the language on AI Beacons says "Combat Group Members". And, finally, the language from G:Servant (and equivalent ghost skills for the purposes of this discussion) [emphasis added]: I now think this could be fixed with a very quick FAQ or single line in the document: Then again, that's quite a bit more verbose and probably not that much clearer than replacing "troops" with "order-generating troopers/equipment" as I suggested above.
I would be careful with this type of reasoning -- in all cases these troops are counted as one only for the purpose of their count towards the limit of troops in a combat group and nothing else.
Right, I am assuming the intent is that the restriction is identical to the one imposed by number of "troops" in a single combat group. While there is a possibility that that isn't the case, I'm willing to bet it is.
Simplest solution: rewrite of the AI beacon text, specially now that we are waiting for N4 in a year (ITS12 will be exceedingly interesting... I already have a name for it: cloack and fragger, with emphasis on camos XD) EDIT: Another option would be to word it with 15 slots in the Army... Countermeasures and Quadrant Control has the Datatracker Special Order. TAGs can be Datatrackers. TAGs have 1 regular order, plus 1 TacWare order. Lt TAGs have a Lt order. This totals for FOUR orders on a TAG that can be an Lt, funnily enough both the Marut and the Avatar (factions with AI beacon) have Strategos, turning that Lt order in a regular order. So.... is it really the intention to limit order generation? Because on a 15 troops limit, Aleph could go for 19 orders... (granted most would be Netrods, flash pulse bots, baggage bots and dakinis), almost the same for CA... I disagree, there it says that a combat group can't contain more than 10 members including AI beacons. Furthermore, in the effects part it mentions specifically that AI beacons are NOT troopers, but pieces of equipment. I'd say Warcor forum.
To be perfectly honest, the idea of "only one and a half combat group" sounds so boring and uninteresting - that's more than half of all lists out there! Only 15 Troopers sound a lot more interesting. Sure, AI Beacons, but on the flip side that puts an interesting limitation on both Proxies and on Servants/Synchs. The ITS extras should be about strongly shifting the game to make it different and interesting, not about cementing what people are already doing!
I think the idea of the rule is a response to the complaints about order spam list. This extra allows most normal lists while stopping the 20+ order spam lists that some people have complained about. So it's not about making it different or interesting, it's about allowing TOs to ban those lists without house rules (I was at a tournament last weekend that had a max 2 combat groups rule).
