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Yu Jing in N4

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    Kind of out of nowhere, but assuming the Liu Xing doesn't get a complete redesign (it won't), just giving it stealth would make it a lot more viable.
     
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  2. Stuffist

    Stuffist Well-Known Member

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    What about just better BTS for the LiuX? Assuming the cost of BTS is reduced, it would be a nice incentive to take the Assault HD version, because HD+BTS would make it better at responding to hacking ARO. Unless your problem is with multiple hacking AROs - I don't see that a lot here though.
    Tell me if that's non-sense, still in the learning curve. :)
     
  3. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    Higher BTS would be nice, but it would also inflate his cost more while still leaving him vulnerable to enemy repeater nets. Stealth would give him the ability to avoid enemy hackers entirely, which is far more useful.

    Even with higher BTS, the AHD would still be bad. It still has the extra KHD vulnerability. Just use a Tiger instead.

    For what it's worth, the existence of Cuervo Goldstien is an absolute insult to the Liu Xing. There's absolutely no excuse.
     
  4. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I ain't gonna lie that profile does feel pretty shitty for us. It's a non hackable Liu Xing that flaunts Yu Jing's real CC prowess instead of the Liu Xing's full retard profile sporting CC15 and a naked CCW.
     
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  5. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    It's ok, dude, he's one of the CB employees' vanity characters. You should be content to let him be better.

    Also, why in blazes does he have Shock immunity? Basic Delta armor doesn't. Yet he has NWI and Shock Immunity... just cuz. Because it doesn't make any fluff sense, but the goal was to exploit the interaction between NWI and Shock Immunity rather than to make sense. Par for the course for profiles these days. Man, it'd be real cool to play a faction with lots of CB self-inserts with OP profiles...
     
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I don't really mind that's he's better I mostly mind that the Liu Xing is shit while he resembles what the Liu Xing could've been instead of the stupid exploding gimmick that doesn't even work effectively while paying for retarded useless stats and gear.
     
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  7. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Waaaay better for 4 points more.
     
  8. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    There's a lot there that bugs me, but what gets me most is the PH13, MOV4-4. ARM3 with no hackable trait.
     
  9. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    But you get the privilege of being HI...
     
  10. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Oh good another yu jing thread getting torpedo'd by the "we think its shit so its community consensus now" crowd.

    Other than my hope that heavy infantry get a buff in N4 I like the liu xing. Its won me plenty of games for its points. Maybe you just need to stop hoping it would do something that it wasn't designed for?

    Cuervo Goldstien is egregious and its got less to do with Liu Xing and more to do with it seems CB seem to have recognised that being hackable sucks and so their new characters are now MI with NWI but magically 4-4 move. This would be OK if all/most MI start becoming 4-4, but then what does MI mean anymore?

    The dude is 10 points more than a liu xing though. In infinity, thats a lot of points so its not like he isn't paying for it?
     
  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The mysterious presence of Shock Immunity for no good reason, when the base profile doesn't have it, tells me that it was about making a powerful profile to satisfy someone's ego rather than making one that fit in the faction.
     
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  12. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    What makes a good reason to have shock immunity?
     
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  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    In this context, if the original unit he was based on had it, since it would make more sense if he was an elite example of them rather than just "he has shock immunity because it's a gamey way to increase an NWI unit's durability without increasing its price too much."
     
  14. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    It's an aggressive troop that's supposed to penetrate enemy lines striking ahead of the Invincibles as the vanguard of the army yet falls flat because repeaters are a thing. I'd like it to simply be able to do its damn job without being gimped. And before you try to play the "yeah but those lists don't exist" we've already literally gone over an entire satellite's list submission and pointed out there is in fact a high consistency of repeaters with hackers that stymie the Liu Xing.


    Like I said I don't have an issue with Goldstein existing or being better, nor do I think he's overpowered or too cheap or anything. I'm mostly just annoyed that he (and to a lesser extent the Nahab) are an example of pseudo 2 wound AD troops that don't suck and exhibit classic strong Yu Jing traits while the Liu Xing is a shitty mess that somehow just exhibits weird gear and bad stats?

    As you said it's true CB probably have realised that being hackable really does suck ass on these drop troops especially those like the Liu Xing that have piss poor anti hacker support to back them up and have taken steps with the newer releases to circumvent those issues. On the other hand highlighting shitty and forgotten profiles/rules that need work done to them is kind of the point of these N4 threads. Explode LX sucks, the Guijia sucks, Shang Ji suck etc etc. We would like them to not suck in N4 kthxbye.
     
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  15. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Shock Immunity + NWI is about as egregious as you can get when it comes to meta-gamey price jankery before you throw on a Frenzy discount. And it's become pretty obvious that CB knows this with the more recent releases, as everyone and their dog is getting it now, too.

    Just give the Liu Xing Stealth, PH13, WIP14. Stealth to act as a bandaid to help cover its biggest flaw, and the stat boosts so that he can at least fit the fluff of being a graduated Tiger. Because if we're going to actually talk about fluff justifications, the statline of the Liu Xing in comparison to the troopers that the fluff says its men are sourced from just blows my mind.
     
    #115 Weathercock, Aug 13, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
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  16. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    This sounds pretty nice, actually. Like the Minelayer Libertos! Maybe the marker state is what the Hulang needs... I would personally preffer Eclipse/Smoke grenades, because I think it benefits the sectorial a lot, but It may be a little too powerful.
     
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  17. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Delta units don't have CC either so I don't really see the relevance of the base unit?

    I get it though. Hackable at this point is anachronistic and its really beginning to show. I don't think CB's philosophy around characters has really changed drastically recently at all. Some characters end up being more durable than the base profile, sometimes a lot, sometimes a little.

    I find the Liu Xing is good. Theres lots of things we could do to make it better. More PH, more WIP, More CC etc. Other than CC for getting engaged which sucks... I haven't found them that necessary. The multi-rifle is a solid profile.

    I'm also quietly hoping that stealth and hacking interaction changes because it makes no fucking sense right now.
     
  18. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Limited Camo + 6-2 move would be minor changes that I think would add a lot to the hulang.
     
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  19. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The issue is that CC skill is something you can easily explain with "This dude is a CC specialist." Shock Immunity is a skill, technically, but thematically it's definitely granted by equipment; one doesn't take advanced operator training to learn to resist hollow point rounds. Why does he have that equipment and not other Deltas?



    If they had just bit the bullet and put the Tiger Soldier in IA we wouldn't have this problem.
     
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  20. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Why does he have an SMG and not other Deltas?
    Why does he have a mono-CCW and not other Deltas?
    Why does he have an AK and not other Deltas?

    Because he a Basilisk level Delta, the point is that he's not yet another Delta, he's the Delta equivalent of Mad Jack Churchill except that he's got a compression suit, mono-CCW, and a bunch of other stuff instead of a longbow, claymore, and bag-pipes.
     
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