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Mine Size and Triggering

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Space Ranger, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I can't find it in previous posts and thanks for any help.

    A mine while in camo is S2, Does this mean the origin of the template is from the S2 or from the actual size of the Mine wish is S0?

    If a mine is discovered, it’s now S0. Does this mean the template origin is the base?

    upload_2019-8-8_12-36-21.png
     
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  2. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    The Camo marker is S2. The Mine itself is always S0.
     
  3. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    So the enemy red can not be affected by the mine until it's practically up against the wall. Also the enemy red can discover without being affected by the mine.
     
  4. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Yes, and yes.
     
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  5. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys that's a big help.
     
  6. chromedog

    chromedog Less than significant minion

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    It will be a -6 to discover the mine, though. Camo and cover count for this roll.
     
  7. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

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    Using a small lip of cover is a cool way of tricking some opponents into thinking your not a mine.

    Sadly it tends to be pretty obvious what's a mine thanks to the way deployment works.
     
  8. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Still better than being blown to bits!

    My friend kept doing a mine behind cover and said the mine pops up to blow up!
     
  9. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I think they did in N2, where you could choose between round and teardrop template blasts. I don't want to dig out the books and re-contaminate my mental N3 rules with N2 hangovers, though.
     
  10. valukr

    valukr Well-Known Member

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    Mines can get cover?
     
  11. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Discovery of a camo marker is affected by cover.

    But yes, I think if you shoot an exposed mine it can also get cover. There's nothing that says otherwise in the BS Attack rules.
     
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  12. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    The cover rules refer to the target, rather than trooper, so I don't see why equipment can't get cover.
     
    #12 colbrook, Aug 12, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
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  13. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

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    Enemy can also destroy the mine using intuitive attack if it can see the camo marker while not having LoF to base (where the mine actually is located).
     
  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, mate, but in order to affect the mine you need to have that template touch the mine which means the base, otherwise you're just hosing down a camo marker which isn't even removed because the cancellation clause requires the mine to make a save.
     
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  15. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

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    @Mahtamori are you sure? Has this been FAQed? I thought that template needed to touch the camo marker to affect the enemy model.

    If successful intuitive attack hit can be cancelled by LoF blocking, is the same true for Discover? Technically, the discoverer doesn’t have a LoF to the mine.
     
  16. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    You discover markers. A template has to hit the actual object under the marker. For anything that's not a mine, those are the same thing.

    To elaborate with an example, you can discover a mine that ends up in total cover after the discover success.

    Now the next question I have has to do with your wording... I don't think the Intuitive Attack is "canceled". You declare an intuitive attack against a marker, but for that attack to do anything to the object under the marker (the mine in this case), the template has to clip the mine itself. However, if you have other things in the template, I'm pretty sure they get hit and the attack isn't canceled.
     
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  17. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

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    So no FAQ or ruling readily available? I thought so too.

    Nothing in the rules say that camo marker can avoid a such hit. If the camo marker is hit, the corresponding model is hit regardless of “actual” model position.
     
  18. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    No faq needed, you damage the model, not the marker.

    If the model (here the mine) is in total cover, you cannot damage it, that’s the effect of total cover
     
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  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yup, what @Arkhos94 wrote. You need to find a rule which says that hitting the Marker damages the model, not the other way around, and I'm fairly certain there is no such rules passage because I've never found one.
     
  20. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

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    Rules aren't 100% clear about hitting camo markers.

    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Camouflaged
    Effects
    • While Camouflaged, troopers are not represented by a model on the table but by a Camouflage Marker (CAMO).

    Cancellation
    A trooper's Camouflaged state is canceled, and its Marker replaced by its model, whenever:
    ...
    The Camouflaged trooper receives a successful hit that forces him to make an ARM/BTS Roll, or a Critical hit, without previous Discovery (by means of an Intuitive Attack, a Template Weapon whose target was a nearby model, etc.)
    ...

    But how does Camouflaged trooper receive a hit? I could argue that whenever Camouflage Marker receives a hit, the corresponding camouflaged trooper receives a hit.


    And because important rules are hidden in examples, this is also relevant:

    Q: Can Camouflage Markers be indirectly hit by Templates Weapons? How does this interact with Impersonation? A: If you hit an enemy trooper not in Camouflaged state and there is an enemy Camouflage Marker inside the Area of Effect of the Template, then the Camouflage Marker would be affected too. However, with an Impersonation Marker you can not declare the Attack because it counts as a friendly trooper.

    Again, Camouflage Marker is affected. But does this mean that Camouflaged trooper is also affected? No one knows for sure.
     
    #20 Tanan, Aug 13, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
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