I think the Varangian Guard is strong, but not worth the uproar people are giving it. Its got a BS of 10, and will probably lose any ranged firefight unless you get extremely lucky. In most cases, its probably better to throw smoke. I equate the Varangian Guard closer to a stronger Morlock w/ Assault Pistol, and points to show that.
lol foh with this disingenuous bullshit. just over a year ago you were flipping your shit about quitting this game
Why? How is a Jaguar better? The lack of martial arts? Oh is it the lack of frenzy over impetuous? That is a pretty big difference.
A 20 to 30% markup is very significant as you start taking multiples of a model. The Varangian seems like a very good warband to me, but not necessarily better than any of the game's other good similar warbands (makaul, jaguar).
Yeah that's very similar to YJ. They have 4 MSV2 units, 7 MSV1 units, and 2 TO units. Even if you added a sectorial's worth of new units to O-12 (which is roughly their difference) you wouldn't see a huge change here. You also skipped over the part where YJ and O-12 both lack MSV3 which remains reserved for Pan-O, Aleph, and CA. They do seem like some sort of hand adjusted discount has been applied somewhere. I can't reconcile their point cost any other way. On the other hand I don't think they're necessarily better than say Monks or Ghazi. Getting a hand adjusted discount on a gun on a BS10 model probably isn't a big deal.
It's cheaper, it has a better BS, benefits from cover, it has a better CCW, doesn't need to sacrifice itself to CC things as much, can have annoying and / or scary ARO weapons while being still disposable (links in sectorial in a great link) and it combos superbly with an Intruder.
I thought I'd expand on my comment about the Varangians - the reason a light shotgun is so good on them is because it makes them much better at trading upwards. If you throw your normal chain rifle warband at something, it can just dodge to get a decent chance at survival. If they try that on a VG then it can promtly fire a shotgun blast into their face at +6 range which greatly decreases the opposing model's chances of living. On the other hand, if they try and shoot back to beat the shotgun they will take the chain rifle in the face instead. Of course, auxilia do this better, but then they don't have smoke or beserk and they cost more - it's not a massive issue, but it's the one unit in the sectorial that stands out to me as being *too* cheap
I'm sorry daboarder, I think I'm still traumatized by that dark age. :P At least out sectorials will still make Pano feel unique in the O-12 matchup.
I agree with everyone who’s arguing for calm, but man, the one profile comparison that does sting a bit is the lynx vs the hexa.
It stings because Electric Pulse and PH 10->11 cost a lot compared to just BS12->13 and WIP 13->14 (not to mention that Hexa is also +1CC). Does it hurts to see that? At first glance, yes. But those difference in stats and loadout will make some difference in niche situations. Thanks to TO and Electric pulse, Hexa is, in fact, rather scary at CC against any trooper not good at it. I know it's a corner case but that's an option you should keep in mind. Yes, Lynx has a good array of excellent options too, I hope so, but every piece of junk we have can have its use, even if it is one game out of one hundred. I have though the feeling that O-12 has sacrificed PH in order do get all those "better priced" units. And this is something to take advantage of. They have only one CoC, an easy target to shoot at without marker state or decoy and they have no Veteran. So E/Maulers and E/M grenades will hurt them hard. I'm looking forward to see how they will handle StarCo or DBS. I still think that Vanilla is better than O-12 at the moment. We have plenty of spots uncovered by O-12 and very little where they took us the canddle. I'm OK with that, you can have a better ORC, this won't stop me to play them. And I prefer CSUs and Auxilias in NCA to Varangian as corner guards.
To be fair, there are several side by side comparisons where there is quite the sting. And a few more where there are just options which would be awesome to see in our lists. But as a Vanilla faction O-12 isn't going to end up enormously powerful, even if many of the lists I've been building look a lot like "PanO list I ran last year, but each individual trooper is slightly better and there are a few more options".
Nah! It's above average, like me but that also means we have a lot of room to improve before saying that it's our units which limit us rather than just us making dumb decisions. And I had been taught that complaining isn't good if you want to get better.
They were the recruits with the least shooting skill, so they gave them the best camo-equipment available to give them more time to Point the gun in the right direction, fumble with the weapon, and so on. And if they screw up, noone recognizes them and so they (or PanO) can't be blamed.
So we finished comparing who had it b...est in Infinity tournament performance? because who wins most is hardly a metric.
