The new more expensive one ? Apparently not that much if I hadn't seen the previous instance that much often (and even in an army which could have taken it in more flexible manner, or start lobbing grenades into enemy DZ on the first order).
How good are you at this game that your opinion is greater than other players? *Sorry, couldn't resist responding to snark with snark. I am not saying that Pano is suddenly inferior to O-12. Nor am I saying I am quiting Pano. But it is very clearly that a lot of little tools that Pano wishes it had are in O-12 and overall the faction seems like a Pano + extra tools that you'd see from say nomads. Which is a very cool niche to create for itself. And I don't actually think its that common to use the holy sepulchre over the Swiss Guard.
Lol never enough is it Sure use a swiss for a comparison if you want. Ill gladly add the bs15 to hmg/ml to the list of pano>O-12
No. Its never enough. Cookie monster want more COOKIES. :P Me: And it took a long time for Virid to come out. Before then, even less nice things in Pano. It is the better comparison. It is nice to see Pano didn't get completely copied and optimized into O-12.
As an avid Pano player this level of salt from players is dissapointing to see. Pano are in such a strong position, for every cool thing O12 gets over Pano theres plenty they dont.
I'm not salty. I'm just use to Eciu's posts and play along. Have some fun. :P If we let CB think we are happy with what we got then they won't give us more nice things. Always demand MORE. Me want MOAR COOKIES!
The only thing that's really true here is no BS15. They have an MSV2 troop and the deva profile, and 3 msv1 profiles. 2 TO profiles. And this is in a fairly small selection of units.
Reeducation camp for you, comrade. We shall teach you about the hunger for cookies and the endless desire for MOAR. :P P.S. Honestly, I'm pretty happy too with our access to CoC for Joan of Arc. Such a sweet dream come true.
O-12 has some neat tools, but it's balance with PanO (rather than say, MAF) is not where the complaining should be directed. I would not trade fusiliers for kappa, Kamau (or even Baggy Mary) for Epsilons, any of the tags for a Zeta, and Bulletteers for anything they get. The fact that they have such nice and suspiciously costed heavy infantry might be a bit of a sore spot for factions that are meant to focus on heavy infantry though. >Pistol upgraded to Heavy pistol >BTS upgraded from 3 to 6 >ARM upgraded from 5 to 6 >PH upgraded from 13 to 14 >MOV upgraded from 4-2 to 4-4 >Full Auto L1 added >NWI added <HMG downgraded from MULTI HMG <Duo lost Difference in points is 4. Does this seem right? EDIT: Apologies, I came to this thread from the sidebar and didn't realise I was in the PanO forums.
Your memory is short. Check the tactica section if you want to see what else I like about PanO Besides, haters will hate, and the Kamau drinks their tears.
But thats still Virid. :P I'll agree with @the huanglong that Yu Jing is the faction that should really be green with envy vs O-12.
Seriously, guys, can we tone the whole thing down a touch. One of the MAJOR reasons ALL these forums are so quiet these days is nobody wants to deal with all the hostility. Now, that being said, there's some major overstatement going on from both sides here. IF we are side-by-side comparing O-12 to PanOceania then it needs to be just the Vanilla faction. O-12 will have Sectorials (and I suspect pretty soon for their first) and we can look at those later. But when we put aside Acon, NCA or VIRD and look just at Vanilla there are quite a lot of "gosh, that's (insert PanO unit) but better for little to no additional cost". This is a fair and valid response which accurately reflects many O-12 units. Now, are there things PanOceania gets which O-12 doesn't, yes, of course. PanOceania has double the number of total units too (which is helping on that front). But a LOT of the most common and popular choices for Vanilla are the very things which O-12 does better for cheaper. There's no need for quite the level of whaling and gnashing of teeth, But nor for the outright hostility in response either.
I mean O-12's thing seems to be that they are the best of the best, so it makes sense that a 1 on 1 head to head comparison to similar things in isolation will be favourable to them. What really matters though is how they come together as a whole. I feel like in the last few years PanO in general has come leaps forward in that regard and is likely way ahead of O-12 that way right now, even when O-12 are the new hotness. To be honest I'm a bit relieved the power creep seems to be in check here IMHO. Yeah O-12 have some sweet stuff like that ODD HI. But I wouldn't swap VIRD for those things, nor Acon either, nor probably even Joan or Swiss or Cutter or Zulu or Helots etc.
Infinity is not played with a singular model, it is played with an army list. 10 to 20 models. The overall capability that list has when completing mission objectives is what matters most. The inclusion of such things as: Fatality L2, jammers, veteran (to avoid jammers), posthumans, symbiomates, high cost-efficiency link teams, etc---is what ultimately makes an army list more capable. 0-12 are closer to mid-pack in power.
O-12 are undeniably a good army, but I think the constant "this unit comparison proves that PanO is underpowered" is pretty pointless. Yes, ORC troopers are overpriced due to CB overvaluing armor but constantly bringing it up isn't going to help up play better. I think that most units in O-12 are priced well for what they are able to do, and if all CB were to do was use this new pricing formula they seem to have developed to update older armies I think the game would be in a pretty good place. For those who do want to complain about the Omega, consider the fact that the bulleteer exists and is half the price. PanO have units that I feel are badly priced, yes, but they also have plently of incredible pieces - croc men, peacemakers, cutters, zulu-cobra, helots, Joan-of-motherfucking-Arc etc are all pieces that stand head and shoulders above much of the competiton. Complaints about the Varangian guard are pretty valid in my eyes tho lol - regular smoke warbands were already incredible, I'm not really sure how you justify giving them an ftf weapon with no increase in price. Then again, this is coming from a mostly Steel Phalanx player so I'm not really sure I can talk.
