W tee Eff?!

Discussion in 'Off-Topic English' started by ShaeKonnit, Jan 15, 2018.

  1. chromedog

    chromedog Less than significant minion

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    When it comes to niche nerd things and hollywood, KEEP your expectations low, that way it's harder to be disappointed.
    Or just look for what you LIKE in their version.

    The FX were cool and so were some of the visuals, but I'm not a big fan of GITS the overarching metaphysics, I'm in it for the 'splosions.

    As for the bond/007 thing - I haven't seen a bond movie in 20 years, and I doubt this will make me want to watch it regardless. Bond has always been a shit spy anyway. A spy is not supposed to stand out. Having a "signature drink" and a signature gun makes you stand out. He might be a super-spy in the movies, but that world is also populated by stupid people, so it's not like the bar is set that high.
     
  2. DrunkCorsair

    DrunkCorsair Well-Known Member

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    Personly i would advise you to read the Artbook from the movie, as it answers alot of your questions.
    Short, they had gone through the source material and alot of the writers etc. and even the guys at Weta admitted to be GitS fans.
    They took stuff from the movie and the series they thought were iconic and treid to tie it all together.
    They had the same problems as any other movie adaption, how do i please an audience that has never heard of GitS and how to please the fans.
    Movie making is a business and the films need to earn money.
    Personly i am happy they made it and took the effort to recreate the oppening scene of the movie with props and not cgi.
     
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  3. ShaeKonnit

    ShaeKonnit Well-Known Member

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    Called it on the Eisenhorn reactions.
    FB_IMG_1563606218371.jpg
     
  4. ev0k

    ev0k Well-Known Member

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    This is brilliant !
     
  5. Del S

    Del S Tunguskaball

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    The problem of calling everything fascism is, fascism is a subset of totalitarian or authoritarian ideologies. Fascism has many broad definitions. 40k has fascist elements in many factions - but so does Lord of the Rings. Gondor is fascist if you use the right definition.

    It's like an inverse of 'Hitler was Socialist!' but still relies on using a flawed or debatable definition.

    Technically speaking, yeah, he was, but, from an unusual approach compared to other socialists. At the basic definition of seizing means of production, he did that. But, not quite for the benefit of the community as a whole, like the definition presented by, say, Google. We should also note he and the Nazis seized production on racial levels.

    And for Hitler to qualify as a socialist requires a definition that potentially renders many "socialists" people are trying to use the reducto ad Hilterum against into, um, not socialists any more. Like people screaming The Democrat Squad are "socialists" to then also argue "LIKE HITLER". Except their "socialism" is nothing like Hitler.

    Basically, words mean different things to different people and by using fascism as a synonym of totalitarian ideologies as a whole, it muddies the waters because we have no damn idea what meanings everyone means now and just opens it all up to semantic quibbles.
     
  6. ShaeKonnit

    ShaeKonnit Well-Known Member

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    The other problem is that too many people seem to think depiction = endorsement.
     
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  7. saint

    saint Charming, but irrational

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    Like the constant drive to remove smoking from period pieces (and even more modern settings) smoking tobacco products has been around for a couple centuries now, and its on the decline because we know its really fucking bad for us (and in my homes state anyway really fucking expensive). so showing people smoking shouldn't get kids who have been bombarded with "smoking is bad" messages (and the horrifying pictures to accompany said messages) since they where in Elementary school to go "I want to try that" it'll largely be "those people are morons".

    And while i agree with the substance of what you said @Del S I also don't think that anyone's really going to argue against someone who calls the Imperium of Man a fascist state, checks a fair few of the more commonly accepted boxes in that category.
     
  8. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    That's pretty funny, considering that Connery had just won the Mister Universe bodybuilding competition (and Roger Moore was tied up in The Saint TV series). Connery looks like a hired goon in his Bond films, and he is my favorite Bond!


    Live action Ghost in the Shell was a very good cyberpunk movie. Evil corporation doing evil things, epic visuals, lots of relatively covert shenanigans. Corporations in bed with the government, etc.

    It was not a very good GitS movie, even as an Origin story. Too many shot-for-shot scenes, not enough setup behind them. Also, The Major's character was far too uncertain.



     
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  9. Lothlanathorian

    Lothlanathorian Not a custom title

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    I'm sorry, I think someone in this thread accused the Aquaman film of being good and I can't with that level of poor taste. That film was shit from start to finish, but Ronon Dex was, you know, hot af with that water on him and stuff.
     
  10. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    My gripe is only with "branding", frankly. That being said, I'm no fan of remakes like the last Lion King movie (essentially the original animation movie, only with CGI), but I'm one of those rare creatures who prefer to watch the original film instead of some sort of new attempt.

    I suggest you to read "Jennifer Morgue" from Charles Stross (there is no problem if you read "The Atrocity Archives" first as introduction, but I think it's not really needed), the protagonist agrees wholeheartedly with you.

    That being said, the good part about the Bond films is precisely the formula, and how easy to identify as a fantasy it is (avoiding the dissonance we suffer when something it's "only" 90% real). As a fantasy, it has been defined to the last comma, while being nearly as silly as ye olde Paranoia RPG.
    Heck, I had the James Bond RPG, played it, directed it, read some adventures, and was utterly confused about those plots (and heavy railroading), but people had fun anyway...

    I'd say "fascism" is more like calling names to whatever ideology the speaker wants to dismiss... If anything, the Empire of Warhammer 40k reminds me more of an autoritative bureucracy, and this film would center in those agents with authorization to do and order whatever the heck they deem necessary, answering only to a council of their peers, who reached that position due to sheer darwinist meritocracy (different from Discworld's Invisible University tenancy in that the darwinism comes from external factors, that is heretics, daemons and xenos, instead of competing murderous colleages XD).

    Thing is, Connery's Bond is always quite the gentleman, while Craig's is more of the "well dressed and mannered hooligan", which to many is, ironically, closer to the original books' Bond.
    Personally, I prefer Connery's Bond as well, but to me the deciding factors are the classic schemes, the cold war and the exotic locations (usually shown at their best, in some sort of romantic remembrance), but I'm fully aware that the Cold War was no joke (even if it "finished" before I had any real understanding of it).
     
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  11. DrunkCorsair

    DrunkCorsair Well-Known Member

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    I think i was not exactly clear cause i was refering to the outrage about whitewashing for the cast of Scarlett Johanson before the movie was even released to the theaters.
    Now you have the exact opposite for going to have a black female 007 and here the complaining start again.

    Well if you dont like it, dont watch it. ,Vote wih your money. You already do the same with your wargames when you chose between different games for the one that suits your taste.

    Personly thats the only film except Star Wars at Christmas i will watch in a theater if it comes to Germany on the big screen:

     
  12. Koin-Koin

    Koin-Koin Well-Known Member

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    Technically it's Bluntman and Chronic's Reboot :grinning:
     
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  13. ShaeKonnit

    ShaeKonnit Well-Known Member

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    James Bond has been a weird one for me, lately.
    I'll watch the old ones and really enjoy them. So, they're not realistic at all but god dammit they're entertaining. My favourite overall is probably Live and Let Die but The Spy Who Loved Me was one of the first I ever saw - guess I have a fondness for the Moore era as a result.
    That said, I did like the simplicity of Dr. No with what I saw of it - the old trick of adhering a hair across the door as a warning system and the girl smashing a flash bulb to stab a guy in the face.
    After that, Goldeneye was the next standout movie, possibly because my friends and I had such a great time with the N64 game.

    For the Craig era, I enjoyed Casino Royale and while I did see the sequal I can't remember a damn thing about it past the initial car chase.
    There was something about water? I also saw Skyfall and again... past a couple of scenes I remember nothing.

    For the female 007 agent, we've had good Rule 63 Bonds already - first that comes to mind is Agent XXX From Spy Who Loved Me - she had a few gadgets of her own, was counter-seducing Bond the entire way and would turn on him in a heartbeat.
    Part of the concern, I think, is that there seems to be this attitude that Bond needs to be "fixed" - that all those characteristics that are regarded as problematic have to be removed or changed, with even Craig himself complaining about his sexist ways. But that's always been part of his appeal, and what's kept the franchise alive for 50+ years; he is a larger than life charcter who indulges in sex, alcohol, toys and violence - he's not supposed to be grounded and relatable. He's like a modern Achilles or Hercules; you want to see all the incredible deeds.

    It's like complaining that the cast of the Fast & Furious movies always disobey basic road traffic laws, and that the cars have irresponsible fuel economy
     
    #1253 ShaeKonnit, Jul 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
  14. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

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    Maybe to you. I , for one, am all in for Bond Boys
     
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  15. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    I said it made a lot of money, I never accused it of being good ;)
     
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  16. Koin-Koin

    Koin-Koin Well-Known Member

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    I share a lot of points regarding Bond's movie with @ShaeKonnit
    Approaching my 50', I was raised with the Moore movies and enjoyed them as a child as there's plenty of gadgets and boom and stunts. honestly I really missed the phallocrate part of the character at that age. Then I discovered the Connery movies with rebroadcasts and the VHS rental aera. I enjoyed them too but differently.
    Then I grow up and even discovered Lazenby's Bond. The actor was not remarkable but Emma Peal was in it (and later I understand how important the episode is in the Bond lore).
    Then we had Timothy Dalton and Pierce Brosnan who have both their own value for the franchise.
    I almost forgot David Niven in the first Casino Royal, but David Niven is David Niven before being Bond (and there's nothing to complain about).

    When all those where just episodes of the same franchise, with Craig we had a full reboot of it, we have to keep it in mind.
    With Casino Royal, I realised that Bond is just a killer with a licence. A Hitman with a nation contract. Actually he was all along whatever actor impersonated him.
    Add to that, is was selected because he's an orphan: a child with feelings issues. Specifically because of that he's a good candidate. He can be raised and trained to do what is expected from him. If not a psychopath he's git real issue which leads to drinking addiction, death-wish, never get serious about relationship so his weakness can be reveled...

    For that Craig provided the raw aspect that was quite smoothed with the previous ones.

    Still I will watch any of those when aired.
     
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  17. Koin-Koin

    Koin-Koin Well-Known Member

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    BTW, there's a reason why Quantum of Solace why so disappointing.
    It lies at the period the movie was made: the Hollywood screenwriter strike.

    When there's the movie guild involved, no writer even touch a pen. Thus a lot of movie where on hold until the strike end.
    But a Bond movie has to respect a release schedule, so they had to find a way to continue working on it even when the scenario was not finalized.

    What you need to know is, in Hollywood, the only way a scenario can be touched by someone else than a writer is to adjust a line because the actor can't say it properly or if adjustment has to be done because a scene was cut (continuity/coherence).

    Thus, only the director and the main actor can do such change.

    So the film was done this way: at day they shoot scenes, at night Craig and Foster rewrite the scene for the next day.

    That's summarized, what a friend of mine explained to me (he was working in the business at that time).
     
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  18. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Which demonstrates that neither one actually knows how to write an entire movie.
     
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  19. DrunkCorsair

    DrunkCorsair Well-Known Member

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    Is that some sort of US system noone else isnt able to understand?
    But couldnt be worse than Disney messing with the Super Mario Bros. movie.
     
  20. ShaeKonnit

    ShaeKonnit Well-Known Member

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    To change the subject entirely, personally I have been trying to minimise the amount of plastic waste from Shae-Konnit Towers, which involves limiting the use of thin, unrecyclable plastics.
    At my local supermarket I recently bought a box of chicken thighs, and when I got them to the checkout the cashier began feeding the box into one of those thin, plastic bags I've been trying to avoid.
    "Oh, is it leaking?" I asked - sometimes the seal around the top of the box can break and the fluids leak out.
    "What?" She replies.
    "The box, is it leaking?"
    "No." She frowns.
    "But, why are you putting it in a bag?"
    "Because it's chicken." She gave me a look as if I was stark, raving mad.
    "But-" i was about to explain it was already in a sealed box, so didn't need a bag if it wasn't leaking but I decided I didn't have the time or patience to argue about it.

    I do try...
     
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