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Executive Order and Lieutenant Level 2

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Mahtamori, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    XD

    It's true that the LT skill generates order for the user RAW, but then the user meet his creator and CoC pick up the batton/XO say "mine is bigger"*. We are left with 2 orphan Lt orders now and a new Lt

    When we go to the LT orders we find this
    Then in the LT skill we have this clarification
    And the Lt order doesn't have anything like this:
    So it seems that the new Lt is allowed to adopt these orphan orders and use them because they are same kind of orders and he is the Lt.

    Then the limit of 1 order/turn is said that is in this line, but for me this line is only indicating the number generated, not imposing a limit
    And if we want to be fussy with the wording then
    In the NCO clearly say order, not orders, so NCO can only ever expend 1 order per turn. You will need to be NCO level 2 and being said that you can expend and extra Lt order to expend two! /s
    I'm just feeling these 2 abilities aren't being measured using the same yardstick

    Note: I don't play any army with the XO Lt2 combo so there is no hidden interest here. I just like messing around with rules.


    *mine being clearly the rank
     
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Me neither, technically, because even if the Hac Tao XO was allowed to use both LT orders, it's a terrible downgrade that is incredibly situational of the worst kind - the one that depends on your opponent's active choices.
     
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  3. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the Hac Tao XO would be a terrible downgrade from a Daoying.

    I'm really lumping XO in with Chain of Command, since CoC is more likely to come up in games.
     
  4. konuhageruke

    konuhageruke Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Sidequest.
    LT2 in on the table. It generated orders. XO took over the liutenantship and then died. After lol round I picked up the initial unit that had LT2 skill as new LT. Is it LTlvl2 or LTlvl1 now?
     
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  5. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    LT2. The Lt. is a special skill, which the XO have just stripped, now that you've enabled it again, the LT2 works again because he meets the same requirements as LT1:


    My emphasis. That's my argument anyways, I'm happy to be proven wrong as I have no horse in this.
     
  6. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    It has LT Level 2 on it's profile. If isn't LT2 now, it wouldn't have been at the start.
     
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  7. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    new faq v1.7 clarify this to my surprise : XO cannot use neither Lt 2 Order nor the Lt 1 Order.

    Of course there was no Order 1 and Order 2, there only exist a Lt Order token, indistinguishable between both that are being generated. First page we discussed how the XO is not the Lt 2 skill user (the original Lt was), and neither is he the Lt 1 skill user (the original Lt was).
    FAQ says the XO trooper cannot use any Lt Order generated by someone else.

    So when you use XO, he only become Lt and will be able to use Lt Order he generates by himself on future Order Count phases.
     
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  8. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    Terrible ruling. There's no rules justification for this, other than they couldn't be bother to adress the Lt.2 question.

    Also this means there's no justification for Chain of Command to use the Lt. order either, according to CB's on logic.

    @HellLois
     
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  9. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    That's not "no justification" that's "forbiden". Only the one who generate the lieutenant order (and NCO) can use it, no CoC, no Executive Order and no reinforce tactical link in some mission.

    People may not like it but it has the advantage of being very clear and simple
     
  10. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    Correct for the CoC. While it was not given as an example, the faq is that the Special Lt Order cannot be used by anyone else than the trooper that generated it, unless specified otherwise. And they give the example of NCO who can spend Lt Orders. And they finish with the example of XO which cannot spend them.

    CoC, based on the rule having no specific effect or example of CoC using the unspent Lt order, would fall in the XO case.
     
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  11. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    @Arkhos94
    @Robock

    Fair enough I suppose. I just don't see the reason why CB are nerfing very few units who are very expensive and arguably pays for that extra order but I digress.
     
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  12. Kraken1130

    Kraken1130 Well-Known Member

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    While the ruling doesn't exactly make sense to me regarding CoC and XO, as they are immediate effects, I can see how the intention might have been to make CoC and XO more of insurance skills than actual, intentional ways to get a new, possibly more aggressive, Lt. There just hasn't been as much to suggest Lt. orders operate like modified irregular orders, so it doesn't necessarily follow that XO and CoC can't use them once they assume the role of Lt.

    I think CoC as insurance makes more sense than XO as insurance, since the units with XO typically can get a lot of use out of thay extra order and thematically CoC takes over in LoL and XO shows up and says "I am the captain now" - either way, you still get the Lt orders the next turn, but yeah doesn't quite make sense.
     
  13. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    Neither I agree on that rulling considering RAW (Lt order should state that only the miniature that generate it can expend it, like irregular orders), but they listened the recent doubts and made a call so now there is no dobut of how that works.
    It's fine for me.
     
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  14. Ghost_from_warp

    Ghost_from_warp Classified

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    Xo is useless now, just at all.
     
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  15. Kraken1130

    Kraken1130 Well-Known Member

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    It isn't useless, it's just a different flavor of CoC now/a way to play Lt. head games. Might it be a bit expensive for that now? Sure, but it isn't totally useless.
     
  16. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Its an active turn fail-safe it just cannot utilise the LT order, plan ahead to have a fighting LT that can use their order.
     
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  17. Ghost_from_warp

    Ghost_from_warp Classified

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    It's not a flavor of CoC. If you are not aware, it does not work in lol. Which mean it's only make sense when you Lt aggressive. But look at cost xo units.
    You will hold hac tao (which cost quarter of your army) as reserve?
    Or maybe Van Zant, the guy who will die next turn he step on the table?

    There are no models which can effectively utilize this rule and it cost one point.
     
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  18. Kraken1130

    Kraken1130 Well-Known Member

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    Your Lt gets shot, your XO steps on to the board before you enter LoL the next turn. Again, narrower application but not useless. I can see the benefit in taking an active Lt. that rushes the first turn and then something like a Hac Tao or Van Zant comes in to sweep on turns 2-3. I agree with you that it isn't the most useful skill anymore, but I still see applications for it.
     
  19. Ghost_from_warp

    Ghost_from_warp Classified

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    Yes, but ability to freely use your hmg hac tao and van zant without being afraid of lol will lower amount xo in lists to 0.
    My concern - both hac tao and Van Zant have to loose xo, which should be granted to units which will utilize effectively.
    Infinity have to many narrow application rules we never see on a table
     
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  20. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It's now kind of in the same boat as aggressive Chain of Command models (Pheasant, Kirpal, etc) where the skill's function doesn't match what you're trying to accomplish by going with a unit equipped in such a way. The ideal unit to have XO on now are those who behave like Hexas or Noctifiers

    But it is a logically consistent ruling.
     
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