Wildcards (not) replacing all Fireteam core Troopes

Ty for the link @Mahtamori, however that doesn't add anything new. That rulling is talking about a Core, and as @CabalTrainee said, we just got a new rule only for Cores; so he doesn't seem to be talking about any other case.
But even in the case that this particular FT would be affected, the haris would still be legal as Asura is listed in that FT chart. It is the same case than this:

They have just created a hiper flexible fireteam system with all those wilcards with Fireteam:X abilities, but until they add more rules this is what we got.

 

So what you're really saying is that you're incapable of forming your argument from scratch without leaning on the same rules foundation that previously held that 4 ABH + 1 Rui Shi was a fully valid Fireteam. That's a pity.

That's a ruling on Core, but it is not a formulated reasoning that is only logically limited to Cores, meaning what it seems like is that the ruling was given to a more limited context than it applies to, and CB being fairly bad at reading the English forums I'm not entire sure they are aware of the mess it left behind.

 

It could apply to other fireteams, but right now we got the rules we got. The new rules in the wiki are only for Cores and the only possibility to this rule applying to other kind of fireteams is a quote from hellois talking about the new rule only for cores. If that was a clarification about the new rule applying to all fireteams, then is the worst clarification i've seen in a while... I'm gonna need something more clear to change my point of view.
IDK, all seems to point that this limitation is only for cores but let's wait a further clarification. Also, this would only allow a few extra links options in Duos and Haris, but it's not like they are getting free models or something game breaking like that out of this rule.

 

BEFORE this FAQs it was a legal Fireteam. AFTER this FAQs, it is no longer a valid Fireteam.

Why are you so against a change in the rules? We ask for clarity, we demand changes, we cry for OP-ness and when something is finally done you don't want it?
After all, all the forum was SKYISFALLING for that 4ABH+RuiShi, and apparently it was the only one REALLY knocked out from this ruling...

 

The Rui Shi essentially has identical Fireteam construction rules to the Rhudra. The Rui Shi was shown by HellLois as having the same requirements to join a Fireteam as a Wildcard. Applying the same interpretation to the Rhudra is reasonable because the written rules for each appears to be the same.

However, I can't apply the new ruling about Fireteam Core+Wildcard to other Fireteams. Because a Fireteam Core doesn't function the same way as other Fireteams do.

Also, if Wildcard does interact the same way with other Fireteams, why doesn't the new ruling reflect this? When interpreting the RAW, I can only conclude that other FIreteams were not mentioned on purpose. The new ruling makes a clear distinction. Which is that other Fireteams have independent requirements. Haris for example only requires one trooper to have the Special Skill and there are no current limit on the number of units that can join as replacements.

 

That's not what he's arguing at all.

@Mahtamori's not saying that it was wrong to change how that Fireteam works he's saying that it implies a change to the underlying logic of how Fireteams work.

Basically he's extending the new ruling from Fireteam Cores to all Fireteams.

As part of that he's questioning how the language around how 'X joins a Fireteam of Y' works. What exactly is a Fireteam of Y?

We know right now that you can't form a valid 2-person Kamau Core from Patsy and a Machinist but can you form a valid 2-person Kamau Haris?

Either:
A. No. There is no Kamau in the Haris so it is not a Kamau Haris (extending the logic of the Zuyong core ruling).
B. Yes. The Kamau Haris is listed on the VIRD Sectorial Chart and the Machinist is able to join it (restricting the new logic to Fireteam Cores).

I argue that the new ruling is explicit in that it applies to Fireteam Cores, however I can see his point.

 

Point of order, Fireteam Core is not a skill!

(It probably should be, but that's a different argument)

I don't think it is. Explanation of why Patsy (Haris) + Kamau HRL + Varuna Machinist (special in Kamau) relied on the fact that even though a Kamau with Haris was not in the team, a Kamau was still present and therefor it was a Kamau Haris.

 

Right now it looks to me like they issued an errata to Fireteam: Core but did not change Fireteam: Haris or Fireteam: Duo (or Enomotarchos, or Triad). Until they either issue an updated ruling or the FAQ document comes out next month with further details, it seems to me that it's open and shut.

 

This is not a strong argument.

1) This ruling is not clear and neither is the purpose of the ruling. There's no logical explanation of why this only applies to FT:Core.

2) The only fireteam of this construct that people were really mad about was the 4 ABH + Rui Shi fireteam. That fireteam was not OP because of the composition rules, it was OP because core linking is a Rui Shi is ridiculous. I can never find the original citation on this, but I'm pretty sure there was talk of allowing a Rui Shi to join a fireteam over a year ago and a CB employee said something along the lines of "we tried that but it was too strong in practice."

3) Can we really blame someone for not being happy with how this change was made? It's a nerf to modern sectorials across the board, especially for armies with only a couple wildcards / more traditional fireteam restrictions, with an unclear purpose.

 

You could put the Fireteam: Core skill on Lupe, Daktari and Massacre in that case. The AVA of Lupe and Daktaris mean that the Rui Shi + 4 ABH result isn't a problem with them.

The only change from the current situation that would result in is that a Lupe + Daktaris 2-person core would become legal (right now it is not). I don't think this is particularly problematic.

This would also allow the fidelity of making a Lupe + Jags core legal but a Daktaris + Jags core not if you wanted (by adding the Fireteam:Core skill to Lupe but not the Dak).

Similarly with Hungries you can add Fireteam:Core to an Oznat but not to the Raktorak. This would serve to make it more obvious that a Oznat + Rak + Hungries core is legal but a Rak + Hungries core is not.

It would mean that all 'normal'* Fireteams become a two-step process:
1 of the models in the Fireteam has appropriate skill and the Fireteam is listed on the Sectorial chart.

* IE. except Triads....

 

I've been brownsing quickly this thread again looking for official words, I've found this:

It seems intended that is only for Cores.

 

So, you found no official word then? [emoji14]

Look I take @ijw's word on it. But it's long been established his word isn't official, merely persuasive (also often in error). Many metas (mine in particular) take his answers as the way to play absent an actual official answer.

So. I'd absolutely tell anyone to play this clarification that it doesn't affect Haris'. But I also respect @Mahtamori's point that it does raise the question of 'well what is a Fireteam of X anyway?'

 

As it is spelled now, it works only for Core. How long would you keep reading something wrong?
How much more "official" do you want, if not THE RULE flat and plain?

I had the same doubt as Mahtamori (& co), but if you read it again, you'll see.

 

Well, at least a bit more official than all our pleb chatting

 

Can you form a Special Fireteam Core consisting of 2 Devas and 1 CSU?

A. Yes. Because it is a type of Dakini Fireteam as it is listed in the Dakini entry of the Sectorial Fireteam chart.
B. No. The Fireteam does not actually include any Dakinis (or counts as Dakinis) and so is not a Dakini Fireteam.

Previously I'd have said A. Now, I'm not so certain.

 

It's the B, Deva is listed in that special fireteam so it counts as one of the obligatory troopers.

EDIT: Brainfart (I meant A but wrote B, at least the reasoning is right XD)

 

Are you speaking of the Dakini one? The "Special Fireteam: Core. Up to 4 Dakinis and up to 2 Deva Functionaries."?

To create that Core you need at least 1 Dakini OR 1 Deva. So 2 Devas + n CSU is totally valid. Why do you think different? The rule says "you must include at least one trooper from one of the units listed for that Fireteam in the Sectorial chart, or a trooper who counts as one of those units" and you included a Deva.

 

Sure, 2 Devas + Samekh is certainly legal based on that logic.

But do 2 Devas form a Special Fireteam that is a type of Dakini Fireteam or do they actually form a Deva Fireteam?

That's the question @Mahtamori is actually asking. It's not reliant on Haris or otherwise.

 

It is up to you to decide when you form it. You just have to (MUST) respect the composition rules and be happy with the result.