But it doesn't, because the logic the was presented with regards to the Cores has changed. Not to mention that I'd honestly argue that this is a dormant issue that has been overlooked because the Rudras states it may join a Yadu Troops Fireteam - how is a Fireteam identified as a "Yadu Troops Fireteam"?
A. It is a Fireteam with at least one Yadu / 'counts as Yadu for Fireteam purposes' in it. B. It is a Fireteam listed against Yadu in the Fireteams list of Sectorial Army in the wiki. That seems like a coherent question for the unsolved questions thread?
I agree, the rules should be further clarified; but applying that kind of logic to a rulebook is dangerous. It's better to work with what you know and have: The fireteam Yadu + Yadu + Asura is listed in both Yadu and Asura fireteams, it's logic to asume it counts as both a Yadu and and Asura fireteams. This is the best official definition of a Yadu fireteam right now. Rudra (from that same list), state that may join to Yadu fireteams. You can replace with wildcard any trooper from that Haris. Nowhere in wildcard says this change the clasification/kind of fireteam. No further clarification. Yeah, we now have a Yadu Fireteam with no Yadu. But that's how this rules seem to work right now. Without any further clarification what is more likely: This works like this. You are supposed to follow a non-written rule.
It has been stated by Hellois regarding Dashat "zhuyong" Fireteam composed of 4 authorized Bounty Hunters + MSV2 YJ remote that you need at least 1 unit providing the skill for the Fireteam to be of that kind. So, you need 1 Yadu with Haris skill (I would go out of a limb here and say that Shakti can be said Yadu and it would be considered a Yadu fireteam) to add the Rudras, and then there is the Wildcard that can only replace the Asura, since replacing the Yadu/Shakti would make the Haris a "non-Yadu", thus preventing the Rudras to join (assuming the Asura was a Haris one). You could make a Yadu Haris + Rudras + Samekht, or a Yadu/Asura Haris + Samekh and a non-haris Asura/Yadu (the one not chosen with the Haris Skill), but that would be all, I think. So no Asura + Rudras + Samekh going around.
As @inane.imp said, those rules are only for Cores right now. And also the Haris skill don't have to be in the Yuda to consider it a Yuda fireteam This is from JSA: You are making it looks more complicated than it really is.
Says one considering rulings for Fireteams to be only applicable to a single instance of Fireteams... Seriously guys, if you demand an asnwer to every single small piece of rules, first CB can go with it and not have time to produce FAQs or an optimized N4, or CB will simply ignore you and things like this will remain unanswered ad infinitum.
Well, that seems pretty especific to me. And even if that would apply to this case, Asura is a trooper listed in that fireteam, so it would count. What we have to try is just applying the rules that we have right now. Those extra rules out of thin air like "X fireteam must have X" or "For it to be a X fireteam the Haris have to be in X" are not helping at all. To be fair questions do more good than harm, they help to see what part of the rules needs more work and clarify things so we can have those N4 rules of steel and FAQs.
Infinity's rules are currently in such a poor state we cannot apply the logic from one rule to another rule and be confident the application is correct. This is the kind of situation that arises from poor structure and undefined terminology. So when it comes to this Fireteam debate where players are questioning every small detail... it's not the players fault at all, it's entirely CB's. They've created this situation and they're the only ones who can fix it. If they want to ignore these issues as being caused by players themselves, that's on them as well.
That single instance doesn't function like the rest. Fireteam Core functions differently than other FIreteams. It has different requirements and is the only Fireteam that doesn't have an equivalent skill needed to form. There is also the new exception on how Wildcard functions with Core that doesn't apply to other types of Fireteams. So unfortunately, trying to apply any logic from Core to other Fireteams doesn't work with any level of certainty. And frankly, trying to apply any logic based on the terminology used in other parts of the rules seems fragile at best. We can't even rely on bullet points to operate how we expect them to. The terminology used within the rules has the same level of integrity. Infinity's rules are like the Wild West. The quickest draw or largest posse wins.
Just a question about the yadus haris: what is the difference between "counts as" and "can join", if both work the same way when looking at the requirements? A rudra "can join" but doesn't "counts as" when shakti does. Sorry if someone pointed it previously, I didn't see it
I asked twice about that. Ijw told that ruling can only be applied to core linkteams, only those. So you can not extrapolate anything about that to haris, duo or any other
You're still using old logic. What Helllois wrote does not agree with what you're writing as far as the reason he gave for why the ruling works like it did. Add to this that your way of reading it approaches bridging of fireteam types, if only for the simple fact that Asura, Deva and Yadu may all form Haris with each other, but not all three at once, while Rudra specifically may only join a Yadu Fireteam. As far as I am aware, this is the only fireteam where this is an issue because the combination of access to Wildcards, access to a trooper that requires a specific type of fireteam, and access to Haris outside that specific type of trooper is very, very, rare. The biggest and most important question here is, why should the Fireteam formation logic be vastly different for Cores than for Haris with regards to unit identity when this is not explained anywhere in the rules? I.e. why is a Fireteam containing (specific sectorial not important, using valid teams for illustration purposes) Shang-Ji, Son-Bae, and Haidao can be considered a Zuyong Haris if formed as Haris but not a Zuyong Core if formed as a Core?
Because Duo, Haris, Thriad, Enomotharc and whatever i missed has a specific rule (need a model with the relevant skill). OTOH Core does not need a specific model until now. Now THAT model is one of the listed in the tables, both for standard Core and Special Core.
Let's go through it, then Patsy DOES NOT count as anything but can join everybody (dirty girl!) Core Fusilier / Kamau / Orc: As long as a Fusilier / Kamau / Orc is in the Fireteam, Patsy can link with them Duo Orc / Armored Cavalry: Patsy has the skill Duo, so she is enough to create each of these Duo Fireteam Haris Kamau / Orc: Patsy has the skill Haris, so she is enough to create each of these Haris Fireteam And yes, Patsy (Haris) + Clipper (Wildcard) + Machinist (Special in Kamau) is a valid Kamau Haris. Am I missing something?
Would you have a link to Hellois clarification? With the rules I know my answer is the one I did, but maybe I'm lacking one of these crucial forum rules that i'm not aware yet (but I'm serioulsy hope I'm not) Yep, it seems that it works as you describe. This would be legal too: Patsy (Haris) + Machinist That Patsy knows how to raise morale! EDIT: Note that a Wildcard doesn't need a Fireteam:Haris or Fireteam:Duo to join those if one of the other models have it. For example, in this case if she wouldn't has the Fireteam:Duo; then she could only form a duo with the Orcs that have the Fireteam:Duo. But as she has it, then he can link with any of them.
Yup, you're missing the rules for which you base your arguments on. See the below quote It would be nice to know if this justification holds true for other fireteams than Cores or whether completely different logic holds true for forming them. Right now from my perspective it seems like people who don't like this ruling are doing their very best to interpret Helllois as literally as possible so it will not spill over on other Fireteams.
That's the only new rules text we got. So unless they change it again it only applies to fireteam: core. The text says Fireteam: Core, the examples are fireteam: core and Hellois also talks only about fireteam: core.
The base is the only line of official ruling we have, it is even in the wiki because it is approved and validated. As you (Mahtamori, not CabalTrainee - to avoid confusion) can read, it only applies to Fireteam Core, because the other type of Fireteam have their own restrictions (you need a model yaddayaddayadda)
