I still think it would be better to actually make Fireteam Core a skill just like the rest of the fancy Fireteam skills. Makes everything more consistent. Exactly! Yes, I am rather impressed with the 'new' GW and actually talking about what is going on. Uhm, NO. "Until 2 of X" means I can have 0, 1, or 2 of X. "2 of X" means I must have 2 of X, any other construction is illegal. That is a significant difference!
Please read the bit in bold again. In terms of those units being mandatory there isn’t a difference when you’re replacing one of them.
The key is that wildcard just let you include models instead of the ones that should be in that fireteam, that's all, but that doesn't change the other fireteam rules: If it's an special fireteam that needs a particular ability to work (haris, duo...), then that need to be present. If the fireteam has a rigid number of memebers (a core that can only be formed with 5 members, or a Haris that needs 3 memebers), then you need that number, with wildcard or without it. You can form a standard core with 2 to 5 models or a standard haris with 2 to 3 models, replacing any of the model. The fireteam having a more flexible number of members doesn't have any effect in the wildcard rule.
The requirements you're placing for those Fireteams are for different situations. The Haris/Duo requirement is for all Fireteams of that type. Where as the Core requirement you've listed is not. It's only for Core+Wildcard. The basic requirement for Core is different. The basic Core requirement and Core+Wildcard requirement are both different than the equivalent Haris/Duo requirements. So whether or not we say the WIldcard rule is inconsistent, the FIreteam rules are inconsistent, or their overall interaction is inconsistent... it means something is inconsistent.
In this case I think the rules are well structured. They could be clearer tho (with a side note in wildcard saying that every other requisite must be fulfilled). Each fireteam has 2 requirements, the "ability" and the troops. For the "ability": in core you just need 1 of the trooper with Fireteam:Core (or 1 that count as), in Haris/Duo is just the same, you need 1 of them (it's true that core is not an ability and the others are, but mechanically there is no difference) Troops: Just get the number and type that the fireteam need, and then replace as many as you wish for wildcards as long as you keep the "ability" in the fireteam. In the wildcard rule doesn't say that you can jump over the "ability" requirement. Could it be clearer? Yes, but it's not inconsistent.
It's the same thing.... but not. So it is well structured. If it was well structured all link teams would use the same rules.
We seem to have different definitions of what 'well structured' means. Just because the rules may work, does not mean they are well structured. I would call a straight line an efficient path between two points. A squiggly line twice as long may still connect them... but it's not an efficient path. Rules work the same way. All but one type of Fireteam has an equivalent Special Skill, and all but one requires this skill to be present in the Fireteam. If those skills are important enough to be required everywhere else, Core should follow the same path. If they're not important, get rid of them all, it doesn't matter, as long as things are consistent. I find it extremely unlikely the differences between the Fireteam requirements are important enough to justify creating this kind of inconsistency. I'm sure sticking to one system would have been more than adequate.
An example of "2 of X" is Ikari. A Special Fireteam of Keisotsu must be exactly 3 Keisotsu, 1 Tanko, and 1 Brawler. No more, No less. They can't even reform a team without those exact troops. It's very clear for them, but it's confusing the hell out of others. Then there are others that are “Can join XX but only on a Sunday when the moon is full and Every other Thursday, expect on a leap year”
That’s a great example, but Ikari don’t have any wildcards. If they did, one could replace any one of those five troops and it would still be a legal team.
XDD you guys are relentless. I agree that it would be better if the same system would be used for all "Fireteam:Skill", but this one is good enough for now. I rather them expending their time fixing other rules that need love much more than a technicallity about Fireteam:Core being or not being a skill.
2 Yadus + 1 Asura special Haris Haris ability in Yadus. Haris ability needed. Rudra "can join" Yadu fireteam = wildcard only for Yadu fireteams So, you can do it as long as you don't replace the Haris Yadu. Group 1 and 2 legal Haris, 3 illegal Haris Operations Subsection of the S.S.S. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 3 YADU (Fireteam: Haris) MULTI Rifle, E/Marat, Drop Bears (Throwing Weapon) / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 37) YADU Heavy Rocket Launcher, Submachine Gun / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 35) ASURA Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 70) GROUP 2 3 YADU (Fireteam: Haris) MULTI Rifle, E/Marat, Drop Bears (Throwing Weapon) / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 37) ASURA Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 70) RUDRA Red Fury, Mine Dispenser / Electric Pulse. (1 | 40) GROUP 3 3 YADU Heavy Rocket Launcher, Submachine Gun / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 35) ASURA Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 70) RUDRA Red Fury, Mine Dispenser / Electric Pulse. (1 | 40) 13 SWC | 434 Points Open in Infinity Army
Ty, but that one is from @ijw: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/forming-fireteams-a-summary.3553/ That's again the same problem, key rules in the forum instead of in official sources. In the wiki you don't have so clear what "count as X" and "can be part of/can join" means, nor the "remember that a fireteam:X still needs the "Fireteam:X" ability under Wilcard rule.
If the Asura was the Haris profile in your third example, it would be perfectly legal as a "Yadu" Haris, since we now know that the only requirement for a "named unit" fireteam is the presence of a single member of that unit (or a "counts as" trooper...).
Good one, I don't play Aleph and somehow I didn't see Asura has a Fireteam:Haris profile XD. Yep, in that case if the third one with the Haris in the Asura would be legal too. But the requirement for the "named unit" fireteam with the single member is just for the Cores, not for Duos or Haris. Asura Haris + Rudra + Samekh FTO would be legal too.
Yeah, good luck getting that one past an opponent or TO. When the Rudra specifically says it can join "any Yadu fireteam", to then try and claim that a fireteam: Haris containing exactly zero Yadu is in fact a Yadu fireteam, is pushing it (and a great way to gain a reputation you don't want in gaming circles). Until the fireteam: Core "clarification" we had exactly no guidance as to what a "named unit" fireteam actually was, regardless of whether it was core, Haris or duo. I'll say again, the whole set of fireteam rules need a complete cleanup.
As long as you work within the rules you shouldn't have problems: A yadu fireteam is composed by Y+Y; Y+Y+Y o Y+Y+X (being Y Yadu and X Deva or Asura) If I build my fireteam using that template but I change all Y for other models I will be fine unless in the rules there is something that check if I have any Yadu there for being a Yadu fireteam. That rule now exist only for Cores, so that Haris should be absolutely legal. I'm not pushing it, I'm working with the rules we have now. If CB doesn't want it to be legal, they only have to add a rule as they did with Cores or define that a X haris need at least one X or a troop that count as X. Don't overthink it, go RAW.
You are 100% pushing it if you're trying to form a "Yadu" fireteam containing exactly no Yadu. And that sort of action is exactly the way to quickly run out of players willing to play you.
