Hey guys, have been told that when models attempt to jump or climb a building, they go to the edge of the rooftop and essentially 'teleport' to the top. I can't find the instructions for this movement on the wiki and so don't know how it works. So I have three questions for anyone who wants to help; 1) Does it work this way? 2) Where's the best place to find those rules? 3) Can a model use this to achieve free movement? In this case, a Seraph jumped 6" to the top of a building, and 'warped' another base width on top. Was that a legitimate action?
1) For climbing, kinda. This was elaborated on in the most recent FAQ. Jumping, no. You have to travel from point to point. 2)Rulebook, FAQ 3)No. The Seraph needs enough movement to reach the top of the the building, then move over the top of the building to get its base fully supported.
I wasn't aware of this one but it doesn't feel right. is that how it is supposed to work now? Because if it works like a kind of teleport, it'd mess with a few things: If a enemy model only see a small part of the wall, a climbing-plus model will get shot in ARO while climbing while a climbing model won't. An enemy standing in a wall in a way that other model cannot climb without engaging in CC can now be bypassed by a climbing model but not by a climbing-plus one. If it's a kind of warp, how does it interact with Engage? Engage can only be meassured to the initial and final point? It'd also contradict the effect bullet points number 1, 6 and 8 I think it is saying that you only have to measure the vertical surface, not the vertical surface + your model base to be able to climb that wall, but it's not trying to override the whole climb mechanic. Wiki most of the time: http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Main_Page But in the forums there are a lot of useful clarifications.
Ok, I readed that too fast. I understood you were saying it'd teleport all the way from the floor the roof :/ If the "warp" distance is that small (from the edge of the roodtop to the top) then there is no problem with that clarification. Just a sanity check for 2 niche scenarios: A model trying to climb to a rooftop very narrow where there is only 1 room for the base of 1 model, let's say that there is some kind of railling that prevent the S to enter in contact even when going to the edge of the rooftop. The climbing model can engage in CC or is it forced to shoot (from the wall with C+ or from the ground if not)? My guess is that he is forced to shoot. Let's say now that in that same situation there is room for another base but the path to that is blocked by the model in the top, can the climbing model warp behind the model in the top? I'd guess no because the climbing model must be placed in b2b with the surface he climbed; in that case he'd need to use another action to climb to a part of the rooftop where he can be placed in b2b, I'd guess he could be placed in b2b with the rooftop and the enemy model to engage at the end of the climb. EDIT: An extra case, in the case that in the rooftop doesn't have any railling and the enemy model is in B2B with the border, Could a climbing model engage in CC from the vertical surface? The bases are supposed to be in contact with a surface so they can get very very close but i'm not 100% sure if they would be allowed to engage or not. Thoughts?
Personally I consider this to be B2B (both bases meet at the point where the floor and wall meet). But it's arguable and requires the right terrain for it. At wall angles more than 90 degrees it isn't possible at all, at wall angles less than 90 degrees it's certainly possible. On a 90 degree wall it's geometricaly possible but practically not. It's something I'd absolutely discuss with my opponent before attempting.
Wait, why would the angle of the wall matter? Isn't it the case that, regardless of the angle of the wall, the base will only be able to touch at one point?
Below 90 degrees it's not a question, the bases will touch in practice. Above 90 degrees you're correct, they will still touch in theory: but, on most tables it won't even be a close run thing because of the way 3mm MDF terrain works. To be honest I hadn't thought it through as far as I should. 90 degrees is the one that really matters. Red Veil terrain is a good example. I would allow someone on a ladder to CC someone at the top of a Red Veil ladder. Whereas I wouldn't on Op:IS terrain.
What happens if you declare a jump to the rooftop, but don't make it all the way - ie your base is half over the edge. Do you fall back to the bottom of the wall?
Yes. The general movement rules say your base has to be fully supported, and Jump says this: If the first MOV value is insufficient to reach a landing spot for the Jumping model, then assume it falls vertically from the end of its available Movement to the ground. Measure this fall distance for Fall Damage purposes.
In this case, let's say that you have 70% of the base in the roof and 30% in the air, would you fall to the ground or to the roof?
You would rewind your jump until the last point where falling would leave your base fully supported, and then fall from there.
Falling is rather obscure... Can it only happen with Jump? So no dodging off a rooftop? The example given in the rules doesn't help much: So Angus ("being who he is") has a Special Skill Trip?
What if the rooftop has a railing? Do you... Climb up to the height of the roof and vault/teleport over the railing? Climb up to the top of the railing and vault/teleport over it down to the roof? Climb up to the top of the railing, vault over it, climb down that inch of the inner side of the railing, and teleport to the rooftop? What about climbing down a roof with railing? And does Climbing Plus change any of this?
I would say that RAW it depends on how the railing is made. If it's a flimsy thing that can't "fully support the base", that is to say it's got holes or gaps in it, then the railing should be ignored and free placement as soon as you reach the horizontal surface the railing is attached to. Essentially "vaulting". If the railing is made as an extension of the wall, such as with Bandua's Q-Buildings, I would say that you need to climb the entire height of the railing before you're freely placed on the horizontal surface on the other side. When climbing down you do the reverse of the above. As for Climbing Plus, I'm very interested in the answer as well. You're technically climbing, but you're not Climbing, and it'd be strange to get basically 40mm of free movement on a Su-Jian or Tsyklon. Same goes for ladders.
I've always measured the full movement for C+. The fact the move doesn't autostop at the top is the clincher for me. I see the free translate as a way of making it that a 4" Move can Climb a 4" wall.
