The Teuton means of closing with the enemy are if you stand in the open on the Reactive they shoot you with a BS 14 Spitfire.
Aside from Montesa all our knights have BS 14 and access to Spitfire. The choice between them depends mostly on their array of skills and secondary weapons. Hospitallers are our generalists, and they're better at this than Teutons. Same goes for Santiagos, which are also more flexible in CQB thanks to Stealth, 360v and Nanopulsers. F-Ks are armored juggernauts and can join OS links. Montesa and Sepulchre are very specialized tools, which don't compete for the same slot. Teutons' defining tools are Panzerfaust and Berserk, which are dragging them in two different directions. They're also the only order with EXP CCW. We already have access to Panzerfausts and other long range weapons; what we could use is Eclipse to ensure our small force can maneuver more efficiently. That's where this "HI Warband" idea comes from. Magisters kinda fill this spot already, but they have their own limitations. This doesn't mean that they're useless; NCO leading a Core of Magisters (and probably a Santiago) is a solid choice. Panzerfausts are useful, though I prefer to use Magisters for that role, even with their lower BS. What I'd like to see is pretty much what @daboarder mentioned; SMGs, shotguns, HFTs. I do like the idea of Combi+LRL, too. In fact my old idea actually included LRL.
I think we are all pretty salty on this because we see the potential of a cool, useful, flavorful unit that we will never get. Although since the story for this season is focusing on Teutons, we might see an upgrade for them at the end of the season.
In fact, there is already things to do with them. For having played Magisters with old and new MO, I want more and more to field combi teutons instead of Magisters just because of the better BS and Combi instead of LSG. But where I agree is that there is not enough done. But instead of Eclipse, which will be too powerful on them in FT (ASS has only them on PH13 and the limitations of this sectorial are even harder than MO), I think there are smarter ways to make their niche clearer. I don't agree that Hospitallers are our main order. They shine only in active turn during the first two turns and the only reactive you can get with them is the HRL OS. On the other side, their core is more expensive than one composed even by two Santiagos and a Teuton in addition to a Magister and a sergeant for less tactical flexibility. Again, they are pretty powerful in active but because their reactive turn is so weak, you need another set of troopers to shield them. Teutons, on the other side, only need a Seraph HMG or to shoot some Panzerfausts to deal with the long range ARO piece before moving up. Santiagos are here to ease the list building. Instead of having a core and a Haris set in the stone, they give you the possibility to adapt your linkteams to your opponent and to the table in addition to some hacking protection and DTW. So, I think this ability to be powerful in long rang ARO along to be effective at short should be spread more. That's why I'm talking about Combi mods, they give you the possibility to have two weapons in one, which would fit to their will to be light on the battlefield. Red Fury is also an other good idea. As for HFT, I think you would need a character in order to have it as this mod is pretty rare (Drakios and GdA only). Definitely, taking example on Drakios in order to know what to give to such character is the way to go. But if we reduce the HFT to a LFT, I think we could get this on a regular Teuton (even though I think DTW won't happen with Teutons because we already have Santiagos in the link).
Teutons don't have to stick with their current stats. Having BS and PH 13 is not unreasonable to expect if they are reworked into a close ranged and melee focused unit. And the Eclipse can be balanced by giving it a SWC cost and sectorial locked, CB already doesn't want us to use half of MO roster in vanilla anyway.
I've been really enjoying the Teuton NCO with 3 Magisters and a Santiago KHD. They have been unstoppable my last couple of games. I do wish that Teutons had more interesting options, but I mainly just wish the EXP CC weapon was on a more attractive profile.
The problem is that every other knight already does that. Better. Being a pure CC monster would give Teutons a niche. Especially since they have Berserk (which gives them Assault), CC21, EXP CCWs and no Cube (so no point in healing them + Sepsitor resistance). Give them either Nimbus Grenades or Stealth or Motorbikes (instead of Montesa) and you've got a thematically good unit of berserker knights who don't fear Avatars. Also note that in N2 Teutons were one of the few 4-4 MOV HI. Making their speed standard for everyone really dampened their appeal.
I'd argue that it didn't affect its potential. Greater speed and Mimetism more than make up for it. I'd rather see lower BS and options, than higher BS... and that's it. We've been there faction-wise and most of us didn't like it. Exactly. Here's my dream version: Teutons: In Your Face Edition MOV 6-2 | CC 23 | BS 13 | PH 13 | WIP 13 | ARM 3 | BTS 6 | W 2 Impetous, Berserk, Jungle, Religious, Kinematika L1, Dogged, Core and Duo (still able to link with Magisters), EXP CCW and Breaker Pistol for all SMG, HFT, Eclipse Grenades SMG, LRL, Eclipse Grenades Vulcan Shotgun (SO) Red Fury, LFT (NCO) Red Fury, LFT (Lieutenant) SMG, HFT, Eclipse Grenades (Haris) Costs probably around mid 30's, making them manageable, but not spammable.
Yeah, I know. Like I've said, it's my dream version. I doubt Teutons will see any changes anytime soon, much less these.
Montesa on Bike. Yesterday was late to do it. I'm almost decided to do a kind of conversion using USAriadnian Bike and Magister Knight, but rather I want to see the model itself. In the same time, I'm hyped how the hell would PanOceanian bikes look like (and hope for some hyper-futuristic look, like jetbike or something similar). Helots. I'm not Varuna player, but I feel these are esential for these sectorial, and, say, these would be beautiful models. Support Pack resculpt. I'm not so negative about the Machinist model as some people here (at least, he looks like he's repairing something!), but TraumaDoc is outdated as hell (and I'm not sure if PanO is exactly the faction that would encourage pregnant women on battlefield). Most of other faction get their resculpt, why the hell not PanO? Guarda de Assalto (ok, I know it's it's foolishness expecting so, but...) Yep, I'm. I event try to build Svalar themed list to my generic PanO army (with quite horrible gaming results so far). And I hope CB would be able to deal Svalar as well as they did with Varuna... and that they'll make it looking more like hardened special force specializing on survival, and not some crazy Vikings-in-Space shit. Definitely there is. For me, it's PanO for life. I might have some side-factions (I run USAriadna and Invincible Army projects), but, everytime I get back to PanO, I feel relieved... it's like coming back home every time. Aconte definitely is. Neoterra as well, and I think Varuna is totally out of question here... :) Generic PanOceania is in better shape then it ever was. No clue about the knights. The only MO unit I've ever used was old Montesa with LGL in Aconteccan list, so I'm not competent to speak anything here. I've run several times into Order Sergeants MO list someone is playing here, and it was quite brutal experience, but losing an option to field Fusiliers had affected these kind of lists bad.
No, Teutons are the only ones who can face in 101 a 1W CC specialists with MA3 and CC23 and have about 80% to put them unconscious while any other knight would be at 24-27% of putting them unconscious while having 60% to lose the FtF and 42-50% to lose a wound (depending on if it is a DA or AP CCW). Or even tank a BSG ARO and still put the target unconsious. That's their only real CC prowess. When I see what suggest @Stiopa and look at the Domaru, I would be with them on the saltmining topic because one Teuton like this would be one of the best insult told to JSA players. Even if one Teuton would cost two Chain Rifle Domaru, it would be just be unconceivable to see the best shooting faction getting the best CC specialist of the game too. Not talking about De Fersen who would become instantly even less played than he is now! Wake up guys! Look at JSA and ASS limitations, they pay their CC skills the hard way. Instead of wanting CC, we could just ask for more diversity in the medium to short range weapons and give them to Teutons. Since we are talking about dreaming, here is what I suggest to add to the existing profiles: Combi Rifle+LRL AP CCW 37/1 Breaker Combi Rifle, Blitzen AP CCW 35/0 Combi Rifle+LFT, Panzerfaust EXP CCW 37/0 Red Fury AP CCW 38/1 (NCO) Boarding Shotgun, 2 DEP EXP CCW 34/0 (SO)
Pick options of BSG/LRL or Red Fury, please! Like the Taskmaster and Mowang! Would be great to have a BSG in a blister pack for conversions!
I went fishing for specifics on the loadout, but didn't get an answer. Red Fury would be the dream... BSG + LRL or Hacker can already be converted.
I wouldn't be so sure. Well, I mean they could be enhanced by a suit rather than by an Lhost. If you take the servo-muscles of one of the 4-4 superheavies like the mowang and remove half the armour I could see that being represented by 6-2. Or a manned TAG style frame used for mobility instead of armour. At this point we're probably talking about another army though, since that doesn't sound like PanO engineering to me. Actually, some kind of "extra leg joint boots" could possibly work for Teutons. Although I'm not sure that's what they need: and with a number of MO players having success with them I'm not certain they even need an upgrade.
