Please lets avoid volatile jokes about the "tears of what part of the community feels" @Maksimas That is a very interesting observation, if the ambient meta is a "play safe" and not a "high risk high gain" meta then many skills, combos and abilities are viewed in an entirely different light. If for example the automedikit is seen as "too risky a doc can heal him safer" instead of "great, not only I can leave him there in a Haris, if he falls I have 60% chance to bring him back and I can have the doc elsewhere" the perception of Automedikit and its value changes drastically, I guess it explains why when ITS X change to combat jump many people thought that this change may make them try fielding AD3+ but is still too risky and my meta was ecstatic on the new "unlimited" ways they can deploy AD3+ they already use. It is a really interesting observation indeed.
Yes but in my usual lists I would also have points for another Zencha the MSR Haidao... I know what I’d rather take...
The Automedkit issue is also the result of who takes the ARO - using an Automedkit means that the trooper in question receives an ARO, whereas running a doctor or G: Servant up to the unconscious dude means *that* guy takes the ARO, which might be worth it to get an important trooper back in the fight. Moreover, spending an order and *losing* a trooper is extremely low-value; the token re-roll is important. If I could get the points back for the Automedkit on my Maakreps and gain Multiterrain I'd do it in a second.
Hence the difference of opinion, one can also argue that probably the unconscious model will not get ARO (been in total cover)and potentially spending only an order to get the model back instead of 2+ and maybe waste a command token too witht he added risk of loosing the doc too from enemy fire is worth the gamble. Both points are entirely valid but come from a different perspective of gameplay, reserved, and high risk, and I can see in a reserved gameplay to put value on low risk always always working skills like multiterrain, that may never be used in a game, over a risk reward skill like Automedikit that is usually useful but unreliable.
I would definitely describe Automedkit as only useful in edge cases. If you get hit with Shock, or someone's covering your corpse, or you roll poorly - you've just wasted points and game resources (orders). It's better on units that are usually operating separate from your army (Malignos) or who can't be killed with Shock or Viral ammo and have huge PH (Sogarats).
It's a value add for me; an automedikit costs between 3-5 points, requires an order to activate, and has a very real chance of killing the model using it. A second or third Yaozao costs 3 points, moves 10 inches an order, and can reroll failures. Often times, for a model like Krit who wants to be tucked away from enemy E/M templates, that one order is often enough for the Yaozao to get up to him. The math gets fuzzier when we talk about his FB profile; for nearly 50 points you get a Zuyong with an assortment of skills and equipment that don't help him be a good ARO piece; Automedikit isn't a good piece of equipment to have on a deployment zone ARO piece, who often starts right next to a doctor. For me, his only potentially viable profile is the FD1/Minelayer one. 0 SWC Minelayer is very nice to have, and a little bit of upfield positioning is useful. But it's killed by being over 40 points, unlinkable, with an extremely underwhelming weapon. So if I need an Engineer, I spend 15 points on the Mech-Engineer. If I need an upfield specialist with mines and a more versatile weapon, I pick a Zhencha. Krit just doesn't bring anything to the table that IA needs or wants -- he's an extremely "safe" profile in the sense that he's not meant to push any envelopes or do anything creative, and that's a shame. If he came with a BSG+E/Mitter, and skipped the Automedikit I'd strongly consider adding him to my Zuyong list. As an aside about Automedikits: they do have a place, but it's mostly on far-forward skirmishers and first strike units like Speculo. These models are often very upfield, rarely within range of doctors, and capable of doing a lot of damage with their relatively slim profiles, so it makes sense to bloat out their points value with equipment with big rewards. When it's on models like Krit or Zhayedan, it feels like unnecessary padding.
I take issue with this list because with just a couple small changes... Invincible Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 TAI SHENG (Chain of Command) Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenades / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 49) ZÚYǑNG Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (2 | 36) HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26) ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38) ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34) WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34) DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29) MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army You now have that very same list, but instead of a pair of flashbots, you have an engineer, a Yaozao, buffable MSV2, and an explosive template weapon to ARO with. Now, how much you value your disco defense is entirely up to you, but with such easily available -- and buffable -- MSV2, it's a hard sell to exchange that for a marginally more effective, yet far more costly, ARO piece.
I see the automedikit as a good enouph reason to have a maakrep operating alone same with krit and if an enemy sniper is forced to use shock instead of the ever present DA kill the Maakrep, its a bonus, that been said Shock ammo availability varies a lot with local meta. As I said above the perception of something is really affected by play style.
It's not a matter of choosing; oftentimes Shock just comes along for free at a very low cost (submachine guns, knives, AP mines) or is a side benefit to something more important (Marksmanship L2). Automedkits are relatively expensive equipment countered by Shock, which is more widely spread and cheaper.
Depends on the meta really, marksmanship L1 that gives shock and 2 are not that abundant, been 1 or 2 choices per army usually including Knauf, I do not see why mines and submarine guns (or knifes) would be a general issue for makreeps, but for automedikits in general they can be a counter, usually though when you are the active player you choose your battles.
As I mentioned earlier, the main time I use automedikit is when I can do a coordinated order and try to bring back multiple models at once. I'm not good at planning out my contingencies, so I frequently don't have my model in total cover when it falls unconscious, though. For a Sogarat that's much less of an issue than some sort of squishy Shasvastii.
And due to what I suspect to be the case of there being more players in the "play safe" over "play risky" camp, that might partially explain why people have a general dislike for Liu Xings, Zhayedans or Krit, since they carry gear that mandates a risk to utilise at all, so for the "play safe" styles that is dubious at best. The Weibings I like not for the disco defense, but for being cheap and fast ( 6-4 MOV ) Forward Observers. Rather nice for employing my favorite caveman tier strategies: smash enemy, smash button after.
It's pointless to discuss the Automedikit in a void when the problem with it is how much more expensive it makes the unit it is equipped on. Krit doesn't bring anything amazing enough that the increased cost is a tax worth paying, he's just expensive. Can Automedikit be useful? Sure, but that's not the issue with Automedikits. Besides, all the other Zuyong and Zhanshi in your list is going to need that Doctor, so you'll have a Doctor if you plan on picking units off the ground, so when the link starts eating dirt you'll move the Doctor's Yaozao over there anyway
I'm serious, this wasn't a rhetorical question. Is it now a bannable offense to make jokes referencing the fact that the Corvus Belli community manager joked about drinking the tears of players?
Problem is we are not talking about Automedikit as a whole, but in the precise context of an expensive troop (HI) with a not stellar PH value (45% of success) that "should" be placed inside a fireteam with more troops that might, or might not, have a medic (or servitor bot) close by. As it stands, I'd say that giving the automedikit only to the unlinkable profile would increase the likelyhood of seeing Krit on the table, because frankly in the linked profiles is seen as pure bloat. Plus on those units it forces the enemy to take measures incase the KO troop returns to the game, this can mean a Haris tied in a position in case a Speculo Killer tries the automedikit option (which generates ARO), if the player is not inclined/able to spend orders to finish the kill: it can turn into a threatening tool, thus it's never bloat in those units. You know, math says DA > Shock, medikit or no medikit, any time when dealing with no NWI troop... sure, DA can get that troop Unconscious instead of removing it outright, but: A dead model and an unconscious model are both 1 order less to the enemy. A KO model further demands Order expenditure for the enemy to recover, a dead model doesn't DA means 2 ARM rolls (Inmunities aside), while Shock means 1. It's easier to take a wound with DA, and there is a chance the model will die (2 ARM fails); with shock it's a save or die, but the "rule of averages" favours DA. DA-carrying troops tend to have better BS than Shock-improved (remotes) troops, the exception usually being "low tech" guys (shock sniper rifles costing 0.5 SWC, or troops with Marksmanship 1). Also, I think no sniper has a choice of "shock or X ammo"... on the top of my head, I can't find anything aside of TAG-HMG that doesn't have shock as an extra to the current ammo mode (even if that ammo is "normal"). The joke reached levels that the forum moderator decided were too high & toxic, and issued a "decree" for those jokes to stop, no exceptions, to avoid further problems. So yes, it has become a bannable offense, despite being originally an "official joke" (no longer repeated since said edict), because what is said in the internet, cannot be unsaid, so regardless of your intentions and level of "intended healthy humor Vs unhealthy humor", the use of said joke would mean putting the moderator in a situation of choosing: enforce his words, or lose some measure of authority, risking the return of unnecesary toxicity. So no, I'm not threatening to call the mods on you, I'm taking my time to explain why using that joke is a risk not worth the trouble ;)
It's called double standards, and often people do it...CB apparently too. If we make it, it's okay, but pay attention, if you do it, you get a ban.
