Jammer into CC

Tema en '[Archived]: N3 Rules' iniciado por Rocker, 7 May 2019.

  1. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    I think this is not true. You can just no longer receive orders from the order pool. But if you still have an irregular order (because you just used an impetuous order so far, or a regular order from your pool) then you can very well still spend it.

    I think the idea is to reset during the next turn, when the isolated trooper only has its own irregular order. (As isolated still lets you generate an order, but only an irregular one.)
     
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  2. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    This. It make Jammers primarily anti-Rambo. Rather than quite often taking out units forost of a game.

    I'd honestly just make it timeless like IMM-1 in Hunting Party. Reset + the troopers own order should be enough to clear the ISO in a lot of circumstances.

    In combination with making them Comms Equipment its a significant enough nerf to prevent key units getting locked out of the game but not enough to really change faction balance.
     
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  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    This is true, typically an already irregular trooper has already spent their irregular order. What's missing in my text was "from the order pool".
    There's a difference, though. If it's an important trooper in Hunting Party, you can empty your order pool into clearing the situation, but you can't do the same with ISO. For the most part you'd be stuck relying on your opponent to generate the orders you need to make the attempts, and if your opponent is happy to just leave the Jammer sitting there and never activate it using an order, then... well...

    A different approach could be that Command Tokens can be used to clear ISO state similar to POS state. This means that an important trooper, such as your LT, can be cleared before it becomes an issue but the effect is still otherwise strong. It's also a case where massed troopers is less of a solution and quality troopers can be elevated slightly.
     
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  4. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Heh, good to see “No LoF” being brought up again. I submitted one of those FAQs in the first place because that trait doesn’t have any associated rules text whatsoever, and it just assumes that players will intuit what is meant.

    So on that note, my intuition is that shooting into a melee will still take the standard -6 to hit. It represents not only that models are hard to see, but also that they are implicitly locked together and fighting/grappling. In that case it’s going to be much harder to direct the energy pulse (or whatever a Jammer is) to fry the one unit’s communications without accidentally affecting the other.
     
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  5. konuhageruke

    konuhageruke Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    True. I got confused, and wrote other state. But the idea might be valid.
     
  6. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Unless you are irregular and smart ;)

    And being smart is not complicated as you usually know that you are facing jammer (again, unless Haq with Holo1).
     
  7. Dreilide

    Dreilide Well-Known Member

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    It seems like if the model with the Jammer goes unconscious, or if the isolated model moves out of the Jammer range, the isolated state should be canceled as well. You likely aren't actively jamming someone's communications if you're laying on the ground.
     
  8. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    That's not how the Isolated state works. It's meant to be this genius low-tech solution that Haqqislam came up with that has all the technologically and scientifically inclined powers of the sphere flummoxed.
     
  9. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    That would be another good change.

    I'd do both, require the ongoing position and survival of the jammer AND allow reset.
     
  10. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Jammers are that bad.

    But the easiest way to simulate that is just make it ISO-1 2 Turns. Way less complicated and still emphasises the temporary nature of Jammers.

    The reason I think you don't need the timeline is because a ~ 65% chance to Reset once per turn and also whenever you get an ARO means that most of the time Jammers won't last much beyond 2 turns anyway.

    Jammers are strong because your opponent knows that, absent an Engineer, there is no threat of you spending more than 1 order on the Isolated trooper. Take that away and Jammer no longer removes something as a potential threat: you can't afford to just ignore it.
     
  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    @inane.imp Sure, but I think they're intended to be as powerful as they are - there's a reason why Isolated takes troopers out of SF Mode too, it's intended to be a simple "nerf trooper with no risk" button for the factions that have it.
     
  12. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Which I think is bad design. I think a 'stop Rambo at no risk and unreliably hamstring them in future turns' is a better design.

    Ultimately if you want to eliminate something as a risk it should be in a Null state. That's something Hacking gets right.
     
  13. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    That seems to depend on how you read into it being a "specialised artefact".

    I can see the Jammer being one of two things; either it's literally an E/M weapon (i.e. an E/Marat) or it's a communications white noise (i.e. a primitive Nullifier)
     
  14. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Well, if CB changes the rules in a way that you can reset out of isolated as you can out of immobilized-1.
     
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