Hi, relatively new player here, starting off with the Druze. I've enjoyed the few games I have played with them, and eagerly look forward to Arslan making his way into my horde of miniatures eventually. However, despite my love for the Druze, I've always had a love for the look of Panoceania units, especially the ORCs. People say they look quite generic and boring, but I couldn't disagree more. Part of the reason I didn't start PanO was cause there weren't any new ORC models...Until they got revealed around a month or so ago. So I'm here to ask; Out of Vanilla, Varuna, NCA and Acon, which sectorial is most suitable for an ORC-based list? Part of me thought Varuna might be the way to go, since they can be upgraded into stealthy boys and have Patsy, but I want to hear what Neoterra's brightest have to say!
They're good in Varuna and Acontecimento, weak and overshadowed in the NCA and completely useless in Vanilla because of much better options everywhere.
Well, yes, in Varuna and ASA, they have their place in the heart of every players as they can part of the FT of the basic LI. For having played them in NCA more than once, they are good there too. It is just that people generally can't play any NCA HI that has not TO camo (even if they might be the best friends of Bolts). But that doesn't mean in any way that they are bad. They'll do the work good enough that you won't bargain about it. And they have Tinbots (which is really handy those days). I think it is @daboarder who used them a lot in Vanilla. Anyway, don't give too much weight about what the others will say to you about them. The best is to play them and find out if you like thew gamewise or not. I love them but I know I am an exception.
I'll toss my hat in for Acon and Varuna as well. The additional profiles and lack of any other Heavy Infantry options in Varuna make them feel like a must take from time to time. They have a much better link in Acon but you'll probably only ever end up taking one.
Sometimes All you really need Is just a plain old boring HI With a plain old boring gun To kill a plain old boring enemy unit And ORCs do that T: And that's why I think ORCs are cool T:
Even if they're plain and boring BS14 and HMG is nothing to sneeze at. Varuna is probably the best place for them.
You'll find someone telling you "it's great" for every Profile there is. Some troops are just good and compliment next to every list. However Orcs are not. They need other things to function, in their case a mixed Link does the trick. Disregarding Patsy I'd agree Varuna/SAA are the best place to bring one (although probably the HMG in 90% of all cases).
"someone" being @Stiopa ? He seems to think everything is the best thing ever. I sometimes feel like he's part of CBs' playtesting team.
Varuna has no substitutes or alternatives, so they're pretty close to essential in some missions. With their specialty Varuna Division rules, they're also more elite and definitely more stylish. However, they compete very directly with Kamau in a fire superiority role, and Kamau are amazing. In Acon, they stand apart from Bagh Mari more. BS12 Mimetism MSV1 and BS14 are quite different. The ORC's 4-4 MOV also stands apart from the 4-2 of Bagh Mari. Acon Regulars with mines, Sensor, Spitfire are also a better support fireteam if you want to maneuver aggressively with the ORC. In both those Sectorials, ORCs have their merits.
You'll find a player willing to say everything is bad as well. Personally I blame the player not the unit. for my money, ORCs have a place in every list they are in, in vanilla they offer the highest AVA on HI HMGs and BSs, in VIRD they are the only unit in their weight class for Wounds and ARM, in ASA they mixed inks make them easy to fit cannons and even in NCA they are cheaper than their compatriot HI. Basically being solid and dependable is what they do and its a good job someone needs to do
Last time I checked solid and dependable is what you settle for if you have a lack of better options or budget. Which nicely fits the bill for Orc, guess we agree @daboarder . You're probably just viewing them from a "glass half full" perspective while I'd definitely gravitate towards half empty. Infinity doesn't have perfect balance, if such a thing even can exist here, there's always a spectrum. Some Factions are less affected but PanO definitely isn't a prime example for equilibrium. The AHD is still a candidate for hot garbage, more than ever with Patsy and Aquila SO Wildcards around to give them a run form their money as HI Specialists. Orcs themselves are mediocre at best, lack of competition and excellent Link buddies for them to leverage their raw stats makes them shine.
I can't speak to VIRD, as they will be my 2020 force (assuming Helots are out by the, if not it'll be MO for the year), but I'm certainly loving the option for ORCs in Acon. Now, I don't think that there is a place for ORC Core Fireteams in any of the PanOceanian sectorials... they just don't justify that kind of investment. But as a solo piece to go into a Core Fireteam of cheaper options, you can't get much better than the Regulars as a place to fit them in.
If you were to try an Orc core, then the only way I'd see it working would be in NCA with something like this: Neoterran Capitaline Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 5 ORC HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 44) ORC Boarding Shotgun + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 36) ORC Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 35) BIPANDRA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) BLACK FRIAR (Albedo, Biometric Visor L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28) 2.5 SWC | 166 Points Open in Infinity Army It's expensive, but brings a specialist, area denial, camo hunting, hacking defence, CQB weapons and a BS 17 HMG to fight its way out of the DZ.
I mean, it's ok. Hell, I could probably even make it work in a list. But I don't think anyone is going to argue it's the best use of 166pts and 2.5SWC in NCA.
I'd say that the 'best' place for ORCs (as a 'new' PanO player myself) is Varuna. It's easily justifiable to have an ORC HMG and Patsy in your list. ORC HMG leads your Core, and Patsy brings a Kamau and Varuna Machinist in the Haris. It's hard to justify more than those two in any PanO list, though.
There's an argument for the Feuerbach in some cases, I think, but it's more matchup/mission specific for when you're worried about White Noise or other Visor-related issues compared to the units it competes with (Bagh Mari and Kamau MSR).
ORCs also have value if you need a meta shakeup too. If an opponent develops useful tools for countering Kamau (White Noise, high-Burst crit fishing, direct template attack, Close Combat,) the ORC is much more resilient to all of these. A Chain Rifle has to work very hard vs an ORCs PH14 and ARM4. Even a DA CCW hit isn't likely to down an ORC in one round, which means your Jammers and other defensive tools get one or two more attempts to neutralize that CC attacker. There's still no competing with the Kamau MSV2, but ORCs do represent a good way to challenge the emerging toolbox of anti-VIRD options.
It's funny, locally the first person to run Varuna started with the Kamau and ORC both as AROs in the Fireteam. So it's less of a meta shift to an answer to counters and more something which has been part of the puzzle since day one. Exactly the kind of little meta wrinkle which I love seeing around the place.
Agreed, though I think I generally prefer the HMG over the Feuerbach. There are a few times the Feuerbach is really useful (armor-heavy opponents, mostly)
