Situation 1: Enemy trooper is targeted by light grenade launcher speculative fire attack. The attack is successful, but the enemy trooper wins the f2f roll. The enemy trooper doesn't have to make a Guts Roll. Situation 2: Enemy trooper is targeted by light smoke grenade launcher speculative fire attack. The attack is successful, but the enemy trooper wins the f2f roll. The enemy has to make a Guts Roll and if it's fais, the trooper is forced to move outside of circular template. Situation 3: Enemy trooper is targeted by Spotlight hacking program outside of LoF. The attack is successful, but the enemy trooper wins the f2f roll. The enemy has to make a Guts Roll and if it's fais, the trooper is forced to move outside of hacking area. Correct?
1) Right. No Guts roll because he didn't suffer the attack. 2 and 3) Wrong. No Guts roll because he won the FtF roll.
That's what I thought earlier, but then I noticed: The user wins the f2f roll, but still makes Guts Roll? Can you force enemy models to jump from roofs using smoke grenades? Do your own troopers have to pass Guts Rolls to remain in the smoke grenade template area?
He can, but is not forced to. You can "force" a simple movement. Jump is not described as part of that simple movement, so no.
Also, unlike reactive Dodging, Guts Moves don't allow you to use a Short Movement Skill - so Guts movement is always without using Super-Jump or Climbing Plus.
I meant to ask "Can you force an enemy model to fall from a from roof using smoke grenades?" Even if he has superjump or climbing plus?
No. You cannot force a model to "fall" from the edge. I think it was answered/FAQed that you can't even reposition a climbing plus model into a wall when engaging in melee with him. By "simple movement" I meant it says to displace the model up to 5cm (+2.5 per Kinematica level) not getting closer to the source of the attack and looking for better cover, or having to go prone if no cover is at range. Also, the option to roll guts, if the target won the ftf, is in the hands of the owner of the model.
Kinematica applies only to dodges. Guts Roll movement isn't dodge. But let's assume that winning a f2f roll doesn't automatically provoke a Guts Roll against smoke grenade or hacking attack. This "extra" Guts Roll is only available in Reset ARO and only if the reactive player wants to perform it. If you fail a f2f roll against smoke grenade (or any spec fire and hacking) attack and the following Guts Roll, is a model forced to fall from a roof? Assuming ofc that the template is placed in a way that allows model to escape it by falling to a lower level.
There is no rule allowing "to fall" from a roof. You must perform a Jump, and those cannot be forced. A troop with SuperJump could, by winning the Dodge ftf, "jump" up to 2 inches, maybe, to fall (remember they ignore the first range of their Movement from the fall, GL finding a fall larger than 4 inches your opponent will want to brave), so I can only imagine troops running from melee (Tags like de Xeodron, for example) using this *if it's allowed* Finally, you cannot force your enemy's models to fall from a roof. You can declare an enemy TAG you have in a Possessed State (hacking rules) to jump out of a high place to break itself, but that follows the "it's a unit you control and spent orders to do so".
Then I have played incorrectly. I have always thought that you could voluntarily move off roof without using a jump order. But you can use smoke grenades to flush enemy out of cover? Even if enemy can ignore Zero visibility zones?
Okay, why not? Clearly going prone doesn't stop further attacks --> Model is forced to move outside of template.
Because Smoke grenades aren't attacks So they don't provoke Guts. "Certain weapons that use Smoke Special Ammunition allow the user to use the Speculative Fire Common Skill. In that case, the Common Skill Speculative Fire works normally, even though it is a Special Dodge and not an Attack." "Several events can force a troop to make a Guts Roll: * Passing one or more ARM or BTS Rolls. * Failing one or more ARM or BTS Rolls, but not remaining in a Null or Immobilized state. * Surviving one or more successful Attacks from weapons, types of Equipment or Hacking Programs with the Non-Lethal Trait, or that do not provoke ARM or BTS Rolls." Satlock, Spotlight, Nimbus and Stun Grenades do work for doing this.
Okay, so speculative smoke grenade attack isn't an attack and therefore doesn't trigger a Guts Roll. Smoke grenade can also be used to make a non-speculative targetless BS attack. Does this BS attack count as an attack?
Nope. It's an effect of the Special Dodge trait. Special Dodges are not attacks (although they remain a form of BS Attack with a BS Weapon). It's *really* not obvious though, nor is it 100% clear. But it is known :)
Yes, it breaks Stealth of the attacker, so a Myrmidon Assault Hacker throwing smoke grenades can be ARO'ed with a Skullbuster by an ambushing enemy killer hacker. Let's assume Speculative Fire with grenades against a target behind a wall. Since there is no Line of Fire, the target already has Total Cover, so his only option RAW would be to go Prone, or some people can allow you to move the 2 inches the dodge in reactive allows (if you suceed and the grenade attack don't, or you win the ftf if both suceeded). So: Endure the rain.
The attack required no LoF --> must move 2" to exit danger zone. Going prone isn't an option in this case, because it doesn't prevent further attacks. Going prone only works against non-speculative template attacks and only if there is LoF blocking wall nearby. Otherwise the target must move it's base out of template. Oddly enough, unless the target is standing near a blast area blocking terrain, he doesn't move if hit by impact circular template because impact circular template must be centered on the target and it takes more than 2" to get fully out of template. If this isn't possible, no move is done --> The flushing option is only valid with teardrop templates and direct circular templates.
Vs a Grenade (without the Special Dodge trait) you are obliged to make a Guts roll and if you fail it to: "If the troop fails its Guts Roll, it must go Prone or move up to 2 inches in order to abandon the danger zone, gain Cover, or improve its Coveragainst the attack. This movement can never be towards the enemy who declared the Attack, nor can it be used to enter base to base contact with an enemy." The Myrmidon throwing a Smoke Grenades performs a BS Attack, this 'breaks Stealth' because it is not "a Short Movement Skill or Cautious Movement within the Zone of Control of one or more enemies but outside their LoF" and as such generates an ARO. Whether a BS Attack with a Smoke Grenade is an 'Attack' or a 'Special Dodge' has no bearing on Stealth.
If you ignore a bullet point If the troop is inside a danger zone, such as the Area of Effect of a Special Skill or a weapon that uses a Template or that requires no LoF, it must move up to 2 inches in order to try to exit the danger zone, or declare itself Prone if it can prevent further Attacks that way. Honestly, you’d think people would spec fire templates near the edges more often to give the model a guts move in a direction favorable to the attacker.
Nimbus grenade weapons don’t have the special dodge rule. If a friendly model is hit by targetless Nimbus grenade attack, is the template cancelled? If not, does friendly model have to make a Guts Roll?
