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Nanopulsars...

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by DeepThought, Apr 25, 2019.

?

You tell me: Is the Nanopulser "Silent" or not?

  1. Yes, without a doubt, and the rules show this.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Yes, I think so. The Soft description corroborates this.

    2.4%
  3. No, I think not. There is no 'silence' keyword save in the soft description.

    42.9%
  4. No. Undoubtedly. The rules show this.

    54.8%
  1. DeepThought

    DeepThought Well-Known Member

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    Ok, having searched the forums and not even finding a keyword related to the subject, I'm posting a thread to ask this quick question. I've sought to make sense of several weapons in Infinity, and for the most part, lore and game mechanics don't seem to contradict each other too much. However, one weapon has developed an inconsistency I cannot reconcile by myself: The Nanopulsar.

    The Nanopulsar in the wiki has this description:
    "Operating a Nanopulser is very straightforward. Nanobots have short-range propulsion and are shot in a wide arc, making aiming aids redundant. For this reason, Nanopulsers are usually integrated/implanted into the operator's torso or body armor, and can be fired instantly without extending the collapsible barrel at the cost of reduced range. An entirely invisible, silent weapon, it is military-use only, and its possession is prohibited across the Human Sphere."

    All in all, a very cool concept. I know most people think of all-consuming nanites when they see this, although I myself see more subtle 'soft science' descriptions, of it ending one's opposition without so much as a whimper, or even a mark if one simply programmed such nanites to infiltrate the target's body via natural entry points (eyes, nostrils, pores, etc.) and took them out with a well-placed brain clot or severed/clamped bloodline. Then, not even their comrades would know what killed them.

    However, this same wiki does not specify "Silent" in the weapon table. Just " Direct Template (Small Teardrop), Intuitive Attack, Non-Lootable", indicating it cannot be used discreetly like a CC knife or Dart's Bow, to list some examples.
    I myself would love the weapon to be silent, but would like someone's confirmation if it isn't.

    Also, if it isn't, does that mean the description is wrong, and that the nanobots are either visible or audible (either of which would explain the rule shift, as someone could look for a point of origin with either) or is it a place where the rules balance the weapon for fair play and ignore the lore?
     
    #1 DeepThought, Apr 25, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
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  2. Titus

    Titus Varuna Beach Commando

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    By the rules it is not silent, this is clear.

    By the cool description, it is not audible, but maybe its use would trigger all kinds of sensors and alarms on the enemy's radar. You're spraying nanobots like crazy after all, if we think about the futuristic setting and technology we could think this is something they know well and know how to detect it easily.
     
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  3. DeepThought

    DeepThought Well-Known Member

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    Makes sense for most factions, but low-tech ones (Ariadna in particular) don't jive with that concept. I totally get your take though -What's more I agree that it is a plausible way to think of things, but by that logic, a near-field motion tracker could provide the same early warning and directional firing intel against weapons that are listed as silent. Still, please cast a vote so I can at least get your opinion with the others.
     
  4. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    I presume the delivery system is the noisemaker.

    Not silent.
     
  5. Aldo

    Aldo Spare 15

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    I would say the guy screaming as nanobots eat him isn't silent.

    As opposed to the guy being shanked with a knife or hit by an explosive/poison arrow, which are silent.
     
  6. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    I'm going to throw my hat in with the non-silent delivery mechanism
     
  7. DeepThought

    DeepThought Well-Known Member

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    Again, all these make sense, particularly the delivery system (although that does leave me to wonder about if someone doesn't eject them if that would make it silent. For that matter, I wonder if, from a soft-data standpoint, that would give it grounds to act as a reactive weapon that could activate when someone comes into range, like a landmine.)
    Someone else once mentioned the screaming concept, which made sense from a "we're being fired on" standpoint, but still didn't explain how someone would be able to spot which direction they were being attacked from, as screaming doesn't allow someone to isolate a point of origin.

    The more I hear people's thoughts, the more I think we need to ask CB & co. to tweak the description to match their rules. I don't mind the rules saying it can't be a subtle weapon, but it sounds like the consensus is that there was a screw-up on the soft description blurb.
     
  8. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    I think it's also worth noting that the Nanopulser, and it's description, predates the silent rule by many years and most of an edition.
     
  9. DeepThought

    DeepThought Well-Known Member

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    Gotcha. That was something I'd wondered about but had no way of researching. It would certainly explain the discrepancy. Unfortunately, that makes the question of whether it was intended to be a subtle, 'silent' weapon all the more difficult to answer.
     
  10. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    I can see the game designers taking one look at the ramifications of a Silent DTW and going "No... just no"
     
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  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    There aren't too many ramifications except player headache for at most a minute.

    Silent prevents Warning and Change Facing - not the ARO itself. Being a Template Weapon, you'd still be able to declare Dodge to Face to Face the Nanopulsar.

    The only real effect would be on non-targets who doesn't get to declare Warning or Change Facing as a response - however, Nanopulsar has a range of roughly ZoC so that requires the user to have Stealth and be able to use Stealth to begin with, and many Nanopulsar users, for example Sun Tze, doesn't have Stealth and as a result, unless he's declaring Intuitive Attack (and possibly if declaring it as first short skill, even if it gets counter-intuitive)
    Not much difference to a Knife or Bow in other words.

    The sum total of applying Silent to Nanopulsar would thus be to give Oniwaban a half-silent weapon, allow Cranes and maybe a few others the same, but for most users it wouldn't matter much.
     
    #11 Mahtamori, Apr 26, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
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  12. DustGod

    DustGod Well-Known Member

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    My exact thoughts... You can't hear it until it's too late but then the nanites striping flesh to bone ... That'll make noise...
     
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  13. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It's not the target that needs to be silent, it's the source. If someone is knifed by a Ninja, everyone will know that soldier is dead, but they won't know where it came from. Similarly, if someone is shot by an explosive arrow, the thud as it explodes in the flesh of the trooper accompanied by warning lights on the hud and the LT starting to relay orders to find that SOB who did it will alert anyone - just not to the exact location of the Ninja.
    If a Zero tries the same with their combi rifle, everyone will know the exact direction to turn towards.
     
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  14. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    I'm not too sure of that - knowing that the soldier has been attacked is the literal fluff text for the Warning! rule:

    "When deployed on the battlefield, all troopers are connected with their brothers-in–arms, so if one of them suffers an attack all other troopers close to him will become aware of it and will try to find the source of the attack."

    But rules-wise it's 100% clear - no Silent Trait listed = not Silent.

    EDIT
    It's ALEPH where it would have a big impact, as most non-REMs have a Nanopulser and a substantial portion of those have Martial Arts, Camo or TO Camo.
     
  15. Wyrmnax

    Wyrmnax Well-Known Member

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    You can consider that the microrobts are thrown out screaming, and that is the reason why they will force a courage roll if you live through it.

    Intimidation tactics.
     
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  16. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I know TOs are so good people forget them, but Dasyus carry a Nanopulser (and Mk2's). Not to mention, a lot of Greek Units (Martial Arts => Stealth).

    Ah, IJW beated me to it XD

    Would be great, however... Fear the Silent Death of Fireteams! your Haris suddenly suffer a nanpulser hit :p
     
  17. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    You know what I find excessively annoying on the forums?

    When I write "most" people chip in with the 5 out of 40 examples that doesn't belong in the category "most"
    When I write "many" people "correct" me by supplying examples of the category that doesn't belong to "many", and often without reflecting on sample size.
    When I write "nearly", I have to pre-emptively complain about people not realizing that "nearly" doesn't mean "all" and yet still people will correct that.

    And it's not at all only me, becauase it happens all the bloody time. (Now just watch people giving examples of when it didn't happen because they don't understand what a common figure of speech that is)
     
  18. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    In my defense, I'd like to mention that the Greeks are a whole sectorial, not just "5 out of 40" (granted, there are now much more sectorials than before, but... whole sectorial), and that OSS is guaranteed to run with a Stealthed Nanopulser 90% of the time. And in vanilla, 99% of the time you will find a Nanopulser on a Stealth-able "platform".

    Just saying :p
     
  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Even in Phalanx, that 6 of 19 Nanopulsar units (not AVA nor individual profiles) who doesn't have Stealth. That alone qualifies as "many" in my book.

    The only nit you legitimately have to pick here, is that very few, if any, of those have a knife, which means that like Oniwaban they suddenly get a silent take down opportunity.
     
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  20. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
    Warcor

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    I assume In a setting which had quite a devastating war with Nanotech and where factions have BTS people have nano tech sensors rigged to their combat gear, It also sounds like quite an unpleasant and therefore probably quite a noisy way to die even if the dispenser itself is silent.
     
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