The LoF rules specifically say that troopers are considered to be able to see all troopers they are Engaged with, even in their back arc.
Yeah, that’s what I said two pages ago and was met with essentially this: When in Base to Base you may draw LoF to all troopers who are base to base with you in 360 degrees. When in a Zero Vis zone you cannot draw LoF at all. We don’t know which rule takes precedence.
Yeah, that's why I had responded as a question. I think that's what he's claiming, but am not sure if it holds up one way or the other.
Nah, you just can't trace LoF through a zero-V zone. When the troopers' bases are touching you're not doing that.
I totally agree with you @Hecaton. But like @toadchild, I also can’t find anything RaW to trot out to support it.
Troopers cannot draw LoF through a Zero Visibility Zone. Inside a Zero Visibility Zone, troopers can only declare Skills that do not require LoF or that require them to be in base to base contact with their target. Since there is no space between Engaged Units, you are not drawing through the Zero Visibility Zone. Looks solid (no pun intended) to me
Since you quoted those two bullet points, I want to point out that if you compare with the Multispectral Visor rules, that second bullet point has to be taken as a reminder, not additional rules. Otherwise a model with MSVL2 standing in a zero visibility zone can’t use its ability to draw line of fire across the zone. Because that’s one of the branch tunnels of this rabbit hole.
Well, if we're going down rabbit holes... Any trooper in base contact with a Template, or whose base or Silhouette Template is covered at least partially by a Template, is equally affected by the Template Weapon or Equipment. I think that might conflict with the idea that base contact LoF isn't going "though" a template. Anyway, I remain thoroughly convinced that the BtB LoF rule trumps the ZVZ LoF rule.
Well, technically, you cannot draw LoF through a Zero Visibility Zone, been base to base contact eliminates any possibility a Zero Visibility Zone is between the two models (it is around them for sure, but not between them). Also, technically, a zone, even in the form of a template is still a zone, not a template weapon or equipment, all the above been technicalities. In general yes, you can CC in a ZVZ.
There is a very simple solution to this. Just change the ARO rulling to "In case of more models making action at the same time (in the same order), you can chose one model you'd like to react to. You have to ARO that model at the first time you're allowed to do so, if not, you don't get it. "
That’s a bit off the mark of the concern. I don’t think anyone is worried about CC in Zero Vis as LoF is not required for CC. The concern is “Do two models in Base to Base have LoF to one another in a Zero Vis zone” because if the answer is no, it potentially opens up some corner case stealth exploits, as well as some other secondary irregularities. Unless i’m Mistaken everyone here wants the answer to be yes.
Am I? How? As long as the trooper is not trying to draw LOF to themselves, that's a non-zero distance, hence the only way to gain an ARO when you're touching a ZVZ is to gain it due to ZoC.
No. Hackers treat Hacking Area as ZOC for the purposes for Hacking AROs. Reset is not a Hacking ARO. OTOH I increasingly think that delaying a Hacking ARO inside a Hacking Area (as if it was their ZOC) with SSL1 is entirely reasonable.
No it's not. As above. This has been well established: see the 'oh fuck no' reaction everyone had to people delaying hacking AROs through hacking areas using SSL1. These are the requirements of Reset. A trooper can only declare Reset if at least one of these is true: The trooper is targeted by a Hacking Attack, i.e., any Attackdeclared using a Hacking Program. The trooper is targeted by a Comms Attack. The trooper is in the Immobilized-1 state. In his Reactive Turn, the trooper has an enemy declare or execute an Order in his Zone of Control. None of them are met by a Trooper activating inside a Hacking Area. And (as above) a Reseting Hacker cannot treat their Hacking Area as ZOC because Reset isnt Hacking.
Wait does this mean a Santiago can use another model in a fireteam to force a White Noise ARO out of an Interventor through a repeater then punk his ass with his KHD?
It’ll be easier to deal with “What really happens with close combat in zero visibility?” and hacking in separate threads. I feel bad about replying now... Here’s a contrived example. HI Victim is standing in a zero visibility zone. A Maakrep Tracker (with MSVL2 and Hacking Device) and a Q-Drone are nearby and perform a Coordinated Order. First skill enters Victim’s ZOC. Victim now has to either Reset or Change Facing. The Maakrep is going to declare hacking if Victim declares Change Facing, or shoot if it declares Reset. Same situation works if the hacker and distraction approach from behind, but might not stay together as long. Is that better or worse than mixed stealth avoiding close combat attacks? The thing is, I don’t know that there’s a decent fix to the situation short of redoing Stealth entering base contact to be a mandatory ARO delay until after second skill rather than “ARO not generated”.
Yeah ! I'm usually the one playing the Santiago KHD and I think this is absolute garbage ! In a video @Bostria was talking about how you could prevent a missile launcher in N2 (wich did not had hit mode at the time) to hit an avatar by having an impersonation marker next to it. He was talking about bug in rules and people abusing it and say that "If I build a house and someone come with a mass and ask "May I destroy your house sir ?" I will say NO off course !". I have the feeling same thing is happening here. Except that CB just provided the mass with this specific answer if the FAQ (which is great otherwise) ... I will definitly play without that ruling whenever I can and encourage people to do the same. @ijw just said how to do it (great ruling btw) : "Either everybody is using stealth or nobody is". If you don't want to then it's fine. But I doubt it will provide us with a better gaming experience. Not sure about what I will do as a TO though ...
