I 100% agree with you – I don't understand why it's a problem they felt they needed to address, but none the less it's now a "ruling". Santiago knights got a little more deadly, which makes me happy (not that they needed it)
So after I was told explicitly that you cannot explot stealth+non-stealth (hello all hackers) it is apparently now legal xD Fun times. @Teslarod @ijw Did someone from CB read an actual rules ?
Santiago Knights are probably the single best non-marker state combat specialist in the game. They are already plenty fucking scary.
I really am just trying to learn and understand. Instead of asking why this part of the stealth rules does not work in this situation. Can someone tell me when this would actually work. However, if the second Short Skill of the Order is any non-Movement Skill, then those enemies can react normally in ARO.
Step 3:.A Ninja moves into B2B with Lupe 4: Lupe has not ARO due to the clause you quote 5: The Ninja declares CC Attack 6: Lupe now gets an ARO due to the clause you quote and CC Attacks back 7: Lupe crits her CC Attack and the Ninja dies
AROs are "use it or lose it" So if an ARO is generated after the first short skill, you either use it there or lose it – regardless of what the second short skill is. It's the same concept as the Idle without stealth to generate an ARO and then run into B2B contact with the second half for free
If a stealth unit on its own moved into b2b (without a non stealth unit forcing the ARO) Then that lets you respond if the opponent declares CC. What we are discussing is the explicit circumvention of the very rule you are reading by forcing the opponent to aro earlier vs a different target
there is a problem with B2 discovery (discover twice, would kind of give B2, considering all at once rule) in that if you both fail and pass, then the imp-1 marker is replaced by imp-2 marker and they have to answer if you can still attempt discovery (different state, but same trooper). Rather than answering that, they simply prevent B2 discovery by saying you cannot declare a Discover movement skill and another discover movement skill on the same target in a single Order. An Errata as it requires changing the skill requirements.
The order sequence goes: First short skill AROs to first short skill Second short skill AROs to second short skill If you have a vaild ARO after the first short skill and are not eligible to hold your ARO then you must either declare that ARO or lose the chance to ARO. So. Stealth and LOF means that you cannot ARO to the Makauls first short skill even if that skill brings them into B2B. If they were then to declare a non-movement skull like CC as a second short skill you would be able to ARO to that second skill. The presence of an activated non-stealth model during the first skill means you have a valid ARO and thus lose the chance to react to that attack as part of the second ARO check.
Because you have already used your ARO on the first skill. And you can't undo / change your ARO if a new option open on the second short skill. From now, I will be calling for a "Gentleman Agreement" that we don't use these hacking or CC tricks before games. I can easily expect a lot of very harsh reaction from players who are not aware of these tricks when you try to explain them in game ... And honestly, contrary to many tricks, I can't blame them here. Sounds as unfun as "I shoot you in the back from the front" to me.
That's not because it's not fair but because it's complicated. The solved the complicated interaction by removing a reasonable, if edge case, one. (Edit: I'm not actually opposed to this) It does raise the question of whether Discover + Discover vs separate targets is still valid (I assume yes).
If a Stealth trooper moves behind in a wall in your ZoC, you would get no ARO to their movement order. If they then declared a BS Attack or any other short skill that is not covered by Stealth, your trooper would now be allowed to ARO normally - in this case most likely with Change Facing. If they were a Hacker and the enemy trooper was hackable, they could also now declare a Hacking attack.
Speak for yourself friend Forcing an ARO so you can take advantage with your second skill has been in the game since forever
Gentleman Agreement was that when this was being debated by the community, that we chose to not do those tricks. Now that the FAQ confirms (to our surprise) it is how we are supposed/expected to play it, we have to play it like that.
I have no idea why you're tagging me, my opinion has always been that you can only react against troopers that triggered an ARO. My recommendation was that Stealth could only be used if all the active troopers used it.
