It still does have it's drawbacks though. That list like IA is very hackable. Gromoz is not that great of a hacker and no killer hackers themselves. A good opponent will use something to draw McMurough into the open to then kill him. The irregular orders are great at first but then you find yourself trying to come up with things for them to do just to use them. Also, the Traktor Muls are big targets. I love Dahshat so far but I don't think it has advantages over IA at all. I'd say on par. Is Ikari better than ISS because they have Wu MIng? Is Druze better than QK? As far as I've seen the the Hulang is still a bit disappointing in all factions! Vanilla, IA, and Dahshat. The Zhencha is very limited in ability. The Hunzakut are better but it sucks they are irregular.
I would like to remind that such politically charged discussion is not encouraged in the forum, please understand not everybody holds the same views and it is better left for the off topic, or a forum more appropriate for such charged discussions.
Adepticon was literally just won by Tunguska playing 2 limited insertion lists. Cancon's top table in the final round was Varuna vs Limited Insertion Steel Phalanx with Hector and Ajax running a link together. Single combat lists are completely viable in a competitive environment, that's clear from simply looking at multiple convention level events so far this year.
Yeah... that came out of the blue. @Space Ranger Traktor Muls aren't any larger than a Panggolin and they aren't terrible as long as you stick to a reasonable number of REMs, McMurrogh can cancel Impetuous without spending regular orders so you're not going to draw him anywhere, WuMing aren't the strongest part of ISS nor their main draw (they are in fact most likely the least competitive list you can make, although fun to play) Sorry, you're perfectly entitled to your opinion, but those statements don't support it very well.
McMurrough had his impetuous downgraded from extremely impetuous to just impetuous. Why did this happen? Only explanation I can come up with was it was a buff aimed at Corregidor because they lack impetuous WBs to run and protect McMurrough with.
I did not see that! Thanks for pointing that out. I still thought he was Extreme. Well that actually makes me a little happier :)
A fuckload of Kuang Shi providing dirt cheap orders to a couple of beatstick models to do beatstick things with.
ISS is very flexible. Wu Ming are too costly to be flexible, in my opinion. Essentially, after you have a Wu Ming 5-man, and the Sophotect, you need a Liuetenant and then you're hurting for points. Essentially any other way of building ISS will be competitive, and it's more a case of essential components than setting up in a specific way. Generally speaking a Su-Jian or two will do the trick, though. That's probably the easiest way to describe a "competitive" ISS list (not that this in any way shape or form actually gives directions for how to play that type of list effectively since target acquisition is much more important and difficult in that type of list) I still like playing Wu Ming, but they play very close to Zuyong and I've got IA for that and they're better at it. (Except for the lack of indirect fire... *sigh*)
I wholeheartedly disagree with you here, as It's entirely possible to make lists able to solve any problem and match-up. It doesn't mean the game is a solved puzzle though, because most solutions require carefull tactical application and that's the reason why there is no such thing as net listing (thus far) in Infinity: crafting a theorically perfect list isn't impossible, but in the end the only perfect list is the one you can make work, period. And yes, even IA can do it, it's just that once I'm done with the big guns and one or two zhencha/liu xing to have more tactical options I'm basically out of points. On the other hand, I can make a perfectly functionnal Dashat list and then decides if i want to have fun with Mc Murrough, Saito or a hulang, or pick the one i think is the most appropriate for the mission, or something else really. I don't have this kind of freedom with IA, not in a tournament setting at least, and it's just depressing...
So from what I understand, the fluff reasoning for the Dahshat Zuyongs being carbon copies of the Yu Jing Zuyongs with all the training etc etc is because fluffwise, they are actually Zuyongs from the Invincible regiments. Finished their tour of duty and gone PMC, and being Ughyurs, Chinese Muslims, they're simply rejoining the main part of their culture by signing up with Haqqislam. The Zuyong power armour is all available on the open market. Basically nothing clandestine or illegal is going on.
So ar with dashat, 4 games, I've been stomped twice and and okay wins twice but against new players. Nothing fantastic with them. It's not like they just kill everything after putting on the table. I've found the Irregular orders are kind of hurting me.
I don't have a problem with someone having Zuyong armor, as you said you can buy that on the open market, probably even as a civilian. I can see uses in construction and mining for powered exos, and having a sealed suit means no breathing issues due to dust or whatever. Nevermind uses like disaster response, though that is usually something the military will happily jump into (beats getting shot at!). What I do have an issue with is the Tactical Awareness profiles. That's a skill, and it takes a hell of a lot of working together in the same team to make the real-world equivalent work now. There's no mention of Infinity doing temporary group-minds ('conflux') as a standard thing. That's more the various PostHuman's thing. A conflux is supposed to let that happen normally.
Nothing in TA really applies to or mentions working well as a team other than the ability to use the extra order while in a fireteam. Since you need to be the team leader to do so though, it isn't the same as providing an order to other units in the link. It is more like a solo skill that you are so accustomed to using that you can jump to the front when needed. "Tactical awareness is the ability to understand the combat environment and its variables, so its evolution can be roughly predicted to act accordingly. This skill is considered a critical resource in the decision-making process, especially in dynamic and complex tactical situations. The management of the intense flow of information characteristic of these situations allows greater operational freedom that favors the most propitious resolution."
Again, that's not a problem for me. Hell, for a while *I* was looking at merc work in ugly places, but was talked out of it by someone who had been there done that because I'm hurt and fat and out of shape. That's not a good combo for staying alive in bad places. I do not like ad-hoc mercs having access to a skill that is (thus far) unique to three units in the entire game: Suryats, Shang Ji, and Zuyong. I get why PanO may not have TA, it's not a piece of equipment they can buy, it's a skill that has to be learned, and PanO is all about tech over skills. But there's nothing stopping Nomads or Haqq or Ariadna or Aleph or Combined from having that skill. At least in their regular armies. Hrm. That's a different explanation than I was expecting. (I don't have the DF book) Still very sure I DO NOT like Dashat having access to what was IA's real selling point. You should NOT be able to make a 20+order spam list with an 8-order HI Pain Train!
I played against dashat in a tournament recently, we played front line and I pulled a 4/4 draw though I feel if we hadn't been down to the wore on time I would have been able to get the win. I was about to rotate most of my units away from his ruishi link, around the the left as he came at my right and managed to put units in places that meant he couldn't activate his assisted fire and the like.
