Dog-warriors A and B move into enemy model LoF using a coordinated order. Both Dog-Warriors are in Dog-Warrior form and in base-to-base contact. Enemy model declares BS attack ARO against the Dog-Warrior A. Both Dog-Warriors declare special dodge and place their smoke grenades so that both Dog-Warriors are affected by Zero Visibility Zone. Enemy model rolls 2, which is a normal hit. Both Dog-Warriors have a skill of 19 (PH16 and +3 from range modifer). Dog-Warrior A rolls 1 and Dog-Warrior B rolls 18. Dog-Warrior B places a Zero Visibility Zone, blocking LoF to models A and B. Q1: Does model A suffer a hit? Q2: If enemy had rolled a critical hit, would model A suffered a hit? Q3: If enemy had been using an circular impact template weapon, would model A suffered a hit?
1. Yes 2. See above 3. See above A smoke template can only ever protect the thrower of the template in the order that it was thrown, even if the zone would obscure the LoF to other models that are being acted against. It's in the FAQ section of the wiki page on smoke.
Trickier question and answer will differ. My answer is "No, because DogB's template blocked LOF of the attack (between DogA and enemy) and beat the enemy attack" Others will answer "Yes, because the origin of the attack is the blast focus, which doesn't need LOF" Personally I consider the latter wrong because that would make FtF versus impact templates impossible, because the primary target is also determined to be affected by the attack the same as secondary targets by answering the question "is the model touching the template?".
It's a BS Attack ARO, with a weapon that has the Special Dodge Trait. So the standard restrictions for BS Attack apply: The user must have LoF towards the target unless the BS Weapon, Special Skill or Equipment used states specifically that it does not require LoF.
Sorry, my previous reply wasn't complete. :( Reactions are triggered by having Line of Fire to the active trooper, having the active trooper in your Zone of Control (mostly limited to Change Facing AROs) and a few other examples that don't apply in this case. So your BS Attack ARO still needs LoF to the active trooper, even if you use the Targetless Trait to throw the smoke somewhere else.
Not true. Change Facing ARO option isn't limited to Zone of Control. In fact, Change Facing ARO is mostly triggered by far away models to get out of hidden deployment. Are you sure that Special dodge ARO needs a LoF to the attacker? It's not a dodge, but a targetless BS attack. If anything, the only requirement for the special dodge is that Zero Visibility Zone blocks the attackers currently non-blocked LoF.
Sorry, maybe my post wasn't clear - Zone of Control reactions are mostly limited to Change Facing. Not Change Facing is limited to ZoC-triggered AROs, as it is also allowed if another trooper declares Alert. Far away models cannot trigger Change Facing. The Requirements for Change Facing are: A figure can only declare this ARO if either of these is true: An allied declares an Alert ARO. An enemy declares or carries out an Order inside the Zone of Control of the user. Yes, I'm sure. If you don't have LoF and aren't in ZoC, no reaction has been triggered. An ARO is also triggered if you are affected by a template from outside your LoF, but in that case the only reaction allowed is a Dodge.
Do we have to get into illegal ARO declarations again? It's a murky issue because of pre-measuring isn't (yet) allowed in Infinity. My understanding is that you can intentionally declare illegal Change Facing ARO (which changes to Idle ARO) to get out of hidden deployment. Special Dodge is also poorly defined (at least compared to other AROs). Nothing new here. "Smoke and Special Dodge - Unlike other Special Ammunition, Smoke can be used to avoid enemy Attacks, but only if those Attacks require LoF and a Roll, and their LoF is blocked by the Smoke Circular Template being placed." The way I read it, the only requirement for Special Dodge ARO is that the smoke blocks LoF. This means that it can't be used against multispectral visor or speculative fire.
This is... troublesome, at best. At worst, it's actual cheating by declaring a ZoC ARO when you know for certain that the trooper is outside ZoC. Special Dodge is a weapon Trait, not an ARO. You declare a BS Attack ARO, applying the Trait. You still have to fulfil all the normal requirements for an ARO - otherwise you'd be able to throw smoke in ARO to somebody on the far side of the table outside LoF!
You would never do that because of high range modifer penalty. In that situation, you would shoot smoke on yourself* (for +3 range modifer). * Targetless weapon rule is also poorly written. Do you measure the range modifer from the center of the circular template or can you use any point of the template? Does the center of the circular template have to be in LoF? Do short walls block targetless weapon LoF, or do you measure LoF and distance in 2D?
IJW’s point was that this isn’t allowed: Enemy trooper activated on the other side of the table and does something while remaining completely outside of line of fire “ARO throw smoke wherever” claiming that it’s justified because it’s ‘targetless’ Not that you’re trying to throw the smoke across the able. In order to have an ARO, you need to satisfy one of the three bullet points: A trooper owned by the Reactive Player can declare an ARO if any of the following is true: It has Line of Fire (LoF) to a trooper being activated by the Active Player. An enemy trooper activates within its Zone of Control (ZC). It has a Special Skill or piece of Equipment allowing reaction to enemy actions without LoF. and “targetless” doesn’t qualify for the third bullet point. “Targetless” means that the smoke doesn’t have to be centered on anyone in particular.
You guys might be talking past each other here. First, IJW is pointing out that the reactive model still has to have an ARO before the Smoke even comes into play. Without LoF, there is no opportunity to go down the decision tree. Secondly, smoke, even though it is "targetless" still has a target. The target can just be a point on the table instead of an actual model. You still have to see the point you are targeting as well. Ninja'd
Clearly this wouldn't be allowed because created smoke wouldn't block LoF, because there is no LoF to block. This case is only relevant if enemy has LoF, but the target doesn't. Example: Enemy has managed to flank the target.
As the others have said, what has triggered the reaction? If active trooper is not in Line of Fire or Zone of Control there is no ARO. Smoke blocking LoF is a result of throwing a Smoke Grenade, not something that allows you to throw it. From Smoke ammo itself: Smoke Special Ammunition is a non-offensive ammunition, so it does not require an enemy—or, in fact, any trooper at all—as a target, and can be thrown at any point on the table. So you are targeting a spot on the table instead of an enemy trooper. All the standard rules for targeting still apply, they just apply to the spot on the table.
1. Yes. Isn’t that how you expected “For my ARO, I throw smoke at my feet” to work? 2. Yes. 3. The effected area of the smoke template is constrained by terrain surrounding the point of focus of the template. To determine the area that smoke covers, you have to follow the blast focus rules (so terrain blocks the effect) rather than trying to simulate billowing or something. You’re not drawing lines from an anywhere infinitely tall line in the center of the infinitely tall cylinder, you’re drawing lines from the point at the center of the circular template.
Okay, I sort of see your logic now. Special Dodge is in fact a BS Attack and BS attack requires a LoF to the enemy, even though Special dodge doesn't target the enemy. Only a Sixth Sense model could respond to out-of LoF attack with a Special Dodge? Targetless attack targets a spot on the ground. The template is centered on the spot. Range modifier is measured from the spot. Compare this to speculative fire, which targets an enemy model, range modifer is calculated from enemy model but template doesn't have to be centered on enemy model. But can you combine targetless and speculative fire? Can you target spot ouside of LoF with smoke grenade?
