1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Symbiont Armor: What do you lose when it's gone?

Discussion in 'Spiral Corps' started by Cothel, Apr 2, 2019.

  1. Cothel

    Cothel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    1,404
    Since there are a number of people who are new to Tohaa jumping into the Spiral Corps pool I figured I'd make a little list of the things your Symbiont Armor troops lose when the Armor is taken down. It's important to remember these things because they will effect your game.

    • Draal: -1 BS, -2 PH, -1 ARM, -6 BTS, Stratuscloud, and Hyper-Dynamics L1
    • Kerail: MOV drops from 6-4 to 4-4, -1 PH, -1 ARM, -3 BTS
    • Kiiutan: -1 PH, -2 ARM, -3 BTS, and Hyper-Dynamics L1
    • Kosuil: -1 WIP, -2 ARM, -3 BTS, and Bioimmunity
    • Rasail: -1 ARM, -3 BTS, Nanoscreen, and V: Courage
    • Le Muet: -2 ARM, ODD, and Forward Deployment L1
    • Kiel-Saan: -1 BS, -2 PH, -4 ARM, -6 BTS
    • Neema: -1 BS, -2 PH, -3 ARM, -9 BTS, and Kinematika L1
    Things like the Kerail no longer being able to keep up with his battle cats, or the Draal going from BS 13 to BS 12 are extremely important to keep up with. I've had a unit lose 1 to their BS stat cause me to get an important Crit in a game. I have also had the loss of ARM/BTS be the reason I failed rolls against damage.
     
  2. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    17,066
    One thing to remember with the Draal is that if they've already activated their Stratuscloud equipment, losing their armour is not a cancellation clause for the Stratuscloud state.
     
  3. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    993
    Likes Received:
    1,529
    Not to get technical but theres no change in practice for Armand losing Forward Deployment right? So we could drop that from the list as well.
     
    RobertShepherd likes this.
  4. OrderMonkey

    OrderMonkey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2018
    Messages:
    150
    Likes Received:
    233
    Since this thread seems to be about the overall effects of Symbiont armor, here are some perks that come with it:

    - though your inactive profile only has a wound attribute of 1, you count as a multi wound model when it comes to shock special ammunition.

    - as far as I know, losing your symbiont armor changes the Type of your HI and MI to LI, this should lead to Neema and the Kiel-San not being hackable anymore. Im not quite certain on this one, though, and would like to see someone confirm

    - you can shed your symbiotic skin by expanding a short order, thus getting rid of your symbiont armor. While this sounds ill advised, since you,ll lose wounds and the buffs it provides, it also cancels states like immobilized.
    It won't come up often, but ist worth keeping in mind.
     
  5. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,803
    Likes Received:
    2,804
    That is correct but for the wrong reason. The Inactive Symbiont Armor profiles are not hackable because they do not have the hackable characteristic, not because they change the unit's type from HI to something else. This is an important distinction because while the hackable characteristic is currently assigned to only three classes of units (TAG, REM, and HI), there is nothing precluding some of those units from not having the characteristic (Ariadna HI for example) or from there being units in the future who are hackable but not one of those unit classifications.

    The hackable rules are kind of a mess right now though, since hacking programs don't actually specify that the unit have the hackable characteristic, only that they are REM/TAG/HI which is not very consistent...
     
    #5 meikyoushisui, Apr 2, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
    Abrilete, toadchild and OrderMonkey like this.
  6. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    17,066
    The change in troop type does stop them being IMM-2ed by E/M though.
     
    Abrilete, meikyoushisui and toadchild like this.
  7. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    852
    Also stops them from being able to achieve HI/MI only classifieds.
     
    Abrilete, meikyoushisui and colbrook like this.
  8. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,025
    Likes Received:
    1,408
    Easymode - you lose ARM and BTS, and Sukuel lose Mimetism. Mostly thats the important part.
     
  9. Cothel

    Cothel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    1,404
    The Inactive Symbiont Armor state is LI for all Symbiont Armor units. This does make any that were hackable non-hackable. In Sprial Corps that is only Neema and the Kiel-Saan. For regular Tohaa it was Neema, Ectros, and Gorgos.

    The problem with "Easymode" is that it's not correct in Spiral Corps. The Draal keep 1 ARM and the Sukuel isn't even a unit in Sprial Corps. It also doesn't help new players to the army who are trying to understand the units that they have never used before.
     
    #9 Cothel, Apr 2, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
    Abrilete, Hiereth, nehemiah and 2 others like this.
  10. DustGod

    DustGod Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2018
    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    241
    No Sukuel in Spiral Corps (unfortunately...what a great profile)
    But I did buy the missile launcher model when I found out that they're getting discontinued right away I'm going to use it as..... Ummm something.... Not sure yet
     
    Abrilete likes this.
  11. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    Actually...

    They're no hackable because you can no longer target them with (most) Hacking Programs due to them being the wrong unit type.

    And not having the Hackable Characteristic.
     
    Robock likes this.
  12. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,803
    Likes Received:
    2,804
    Good god the rules for this are made in the most cumbersome way possible. Why not just have all of those programs target things with the hackable trait? Because RAW the hackable trait is pointless right now.

    That could also fix the nonsense with unhackable HI getting E/Md, it could work on things with the hackable trait rather than with certain unit types.
     
  13. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    Hackable is just a reminder, I'm not sure what the issue is.

    EDIT - and Cybermines trigger off the Hackable Characteristic, so it's not pointless.
     
  14. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,803
    Likes Received:
    2,804
    So there are two redundant mechanics that are not interchangeable and aren't used consistently throughout the rules and you don't consider that an issue?
     
  15. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    Where is it not used consistently?
     
  16. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    473
    Likes Received:
    358
    Sometimes you can hack non-hackable troopers (non-hackable HIs for example), and sometimes you cannot hack hackable troopers (HIs with a Killer Hacker Device). That can be rather confusing especially for new players. (For the record: that was very confusing to me, but I am not a good player...)
    You can label this incosistency. (Not overly precisely, though.)
     
    ijw likes this.
  17. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    For the first one, only for Programs like Spotlight, that explicitly say they can be used on anyone.
    For the second, that's because Killer Hackers aren't general purpose devices.
     
    Káosz Brigodéros likes this.
  18. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    473
    Likes Received:
    358
    Indeed. For experienced players that is pretty trivial. For a rookie, that is one (two) more things to keep in mind - in addition to the plethora of rules in place simultaneously.
     
    ijw likes this.
  19. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,803
    Likes Received:
    2,804
    Exactly zero hacking programs actually target things with the hackable trait, apparently. That's a huge internal consistency issue, just based on the use of basic terms...

    Why not just do away with the individual unit distinctions for TAG/REM/HI on the hacking programs chart and just replace them with "hackable"? There's also the issue of E\M working on thick leather right now, and changing that to affect the hackable trait would also be important.

    The thing is, there's only 2 rules right now that actually rely on the hackable trait, as I mentioned before and you added to. Cybermines and Holo2.

    Why not clean up all of these things into one rule that all of those things can rely on? The current form isn't consistent or intuitive.
     
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation