Can Joan of arc use her inspiring leadership skill to coordinate three TO Spec. Sergeants to recamo ?
I can not find anything in the Coordinated Orders rule that says the other troopers must mimic the Spearhead. For all I can tell, the only reason for the Spearhead Marker is to note which trooper has highest burst. Yes, you should be able to declare a skill that one member of the Coordinated Order can't declare, even if that member is the Spearhead.
Yeah, it's completely legal. If a troop isn't able to perform the move in a coordinated order, it'll just idle. On top of that, inspiring leadership doesn't require Joan to be the spearhead, she just needs to be part of it: You may declare a Coordinated Order that includes the user by spending the Special Lieutenant Order only, without further expenditures of Command Tokens or extra Orders.
Yes, but you can not coordinate Dart (which is camo) and TO camo (to my regret ... Unless you decide to use the lower level of the TO camo to have the camo skill ... Any idea how it would work ? Your TO is nomal camo until you want it to go back to TO ? Is it something you have to decide at the beginning of the game ? Edit : My understanding is that Camo and TO camo are special skill. And Camo token state and TO Camo token state are ... "states" with different bullet points. So you as a TO Camo you could decide to become a Camo token state (only -3 to discover you), but as soon as you are discovered you still have the TO camo special skill. Is that interpretation correct according to you @ijw ?
Camo and TO both have NFB so you can have both of them active in the same order Let's imagine your TO trooper (let's say a MK2) is in camo marker state. Your opponent (a fusilier) declare discover You declare ARO BS attack The fusilier declare BS Attack Your opposed roll will be done using only the -3 of camouflage and not the -6 of TO because you started the turn using the level 2 of Camouflage and Hiding and cannot use level 3 during the same order. In the next order, you will be able to use level 3 of Camouflage and Hiding to get your -6
Ok so basicly I could do that. But I can only use one skill during an order. I get your point, but NFB only says you can't have two NFB skills active at the same time. It doesn't say you can't desactivate one skill and activate the other in the same order. So in your exemple, what prevents me from saying "I ARO shoot. At the same time I desactivate Camo to Revert to TO Camo skill ?" For exemple you can cancel a Fireteam whenever you want, even in the middle of an ARO, and the result kicks in before the resolution of the order.
Everything in an order is happening at the same time (see structure of an order). So by having C&H lvl 2 active during the first part of the order (discover) then C&H lvl 3 active during the second part of the order (BS attack) you would have both active "simultaneously", which NFB forbid In this example, the fireteam is considered cancelled during the whole order. There is no equivalent with C&H where you could cancel your camouflage state "backward"
I think you're trying to unsolve a solved question from the old forums. The respective Marker states do not have NFB. See Limited Camouflage which doesn't have a skill that "sustains" the state. The exception is when, during a coordinated order, both Dart and the Sniper proxy activates normal Camouflage and someone ARO BS Attack on the Proxy. Since Proxy has to use the Camouflage skill to activate the state, NFB kicks in and denies TO during THAT order.
Limited Camo is the only camo skill that doesn't have an effect sustaining the camo state. But, as limited camo cannot go TO, it's not really related to marduck question (starting a turn in camouflaged state then use TO modifier in the resolution phase). (ps : while it's not the question asked here by @Marduck, I would agree that in the case of limited camo, the different writing allows you to be in marker state at the beginning of the turn and use mimetism in an opposed roll during the resolution phase) All other CH skill does : CH: LEVEL 2. CAMOUFLAGE Optional, NFB, Fire-Sensitive. [...]During the game, allows the user to be in the Camouflaged state. CH: LEVEL 3. TO CAMOUFLAGE Optional, NFB, Fire-Sensitive. [...]During the game, allows the user to be TO Camouflaged. CH: LEVEL X. AMBUSH CAMOUFLAGE Optional, NFB, Fire-Sensitive. [...] Level X has all benefits and limitations of Level 2, CH: Camouflage. So if you are camouflaged using level 2 or X of CH, then you are actively using a CH skill with the NFB label. That prevent you from using CH: LEVEL 3. TO CAMOUFLAGE at the same time. All happen simultaniously in an order so I understand at the same time as "during the same order" here So no using TO visual modifier when starting the order as a camouflage marker
And yet, to my memory, the Mimetism + Limited Camo was specifically and satisfactorily answered with that the Camouflage state has no NFB label.
As you pointed out, limited camo doesn't have a "sustain" effect, so I agreed with you for this specific case : Other CH skills does have a "sustain" effect and so are active when the camouflaged/TO state is on.
Please bear in mind that this does not match the FAQ entry about being able to voluntarily drop Camo or TO Camo marker states.
The idea of being able to 'turn off' Camo or TO Camo marker states whenever you wanted, was based on the idea that the state depends on the Special Skill, so that you could stop using the optional Skill and that would cancel the state. But the FAQ said that only the Cancellation clauses for the state can cancel the state. This means that there is no 'sustain' effect for the states.
So according to you, a trooper could be in regular Camo state, but still have the TO Camo skill active ? He only uses the Camo skill to enter the Camo state ... Well that's tricky. Whishlist : I would rather have the FAQ say camo / camo TO / whatever you can coordinate and recamo everybody (same for different kinds of mines) OR say that TO camo troopers don't get access to regular Camo ... That would make more sens.
Could we have @HellLois confirmation of this ? It's a level of tricky high enough to need official confirmation (with FAQ RAI contradicting RAW)
Well on second thought it's actually more simple. A TO camo trooper can turn into regular camo state (applying only a -3 to discovery rolls). But he retains the TO camo skill bonuses if discovered ... That sounds more simple that turning on / off etc.
Still, that's a FAQ RAI rewriting RAW. Could we have some sort of official confirmation ? Because it change a lot the way I will play my TO (having them deployed in camo marker will happen a lot more often)
