Splitting Burst in ARO with MA4/5

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Teslarod, Mar 28, 2019.

  1. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Just wanted to check something we stumpled upon today.
    The more eyes to take a look at this the better.

    Till today I was operating under the assumption you simply can not split Burst in ARO.
    However that seems to be wrong.
    Supressive Fire, Fireteam 3 Man Bonus, Total Reaction and Neurokinetics specifically mention you have to direct the full Burst against the same Target in ARO.

    There doesn't seem to be a restriction like this for troops with B2 in CC regarding AROs.

    Burst
    In the Active Turn, each time a troop declares a CC Attack, it can make as many attacks as the Burst (B) value of its CC Weapon. However, in the Reactive Turn, the Burst value is 1 but can be modified after that by some Special Rules or Skills.

    During the declaration of a CC Attack, the player can distribute a number of attacks equal to the Burst value among one or more targets, as long as all targets are valid (in base to base contact with the attacker).

    So it looks like you can split B with MA4/5 in ARO, as long as you split the B in between Active Troopers (because AROs need to be taken against Active models).
    This would allow to take normal rolls against Coordinated CC Attacks, Fireteam CC Attacks and G:Sync/G:Servant + Controller CC Attacks, while also opposing the CC Attack in a FTF.

    Can someone find anything that makes splitting B in ARO against multiple Active Models impossible?
    Thank you for your help.
     
  2. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Enhanced Reaction does not have the splitting restriction worded into it, but it was FAq'd to have the same restriction. That might give a hint.
     
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  3. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    All multiple activated trooper (G:Sync, G:Servant, fireteam, coordinated order) only generate one ARO once activated. Because of that, when AROing multiple activated troopers, you can only ARO against one trooper, meaning you only have one target to your BS or CC attack (in active you can have multiple target to your attack)

    One target only means no one to split your burst.

    So no burst splitting in ARO
     
  4. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Unfortunately that isn't quite what the rules say.

    Each time the Active Player activates a trooper by spending an order, each eligible enemy gets one single ARO, regardless of the number of Skills the Active Player declares during that Order.

    AROs must choose the trooper activated by the Order as their target.

    There are multiple "Active Troopers" in our case and the only thing that seems to prevent splitting Burst in between them is a specific clause that only shows up for BS Special Skills and 3 Man Link Bonus.
    There is no such thing as a rule that straight up prevents you from declaring an ARO against more than one Trooper, although it would be great if you could find one.
     
  5. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    G: Synch - In ARO, the adversary can only target one of them.
    G: Servant - In ARO, the adversary can only target one of them.
    Fireteams - So, each enemy trooper will be able to declare a single ARO against only one of the Fireteam members who are in their LoF or ZoC.
    Antipode - The adversary can select any member of the Pack as a target, but only one of them.

    My emphasis.

    Coordinated Order is the only one that is possibly ambiguous - Reactive troopers may choose which of the coordinated troopers they will declare their ARO against, and are not obligated to choose the same target.

    But the examples for Coordinated Order make it clear that you pick one of the active troopers - The Morat TAG can only declare ARO against one of the four PanOceanian troopers in its LoF/The Dragão can only react against one of the oncoming Vanguards/The Morat TAG can only declare its ARO against one of the three looming PanOceanian troopers

    So no, it's not possible to split Burst in ARO.
     
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  6. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Thanks, for the record I don't think it was intended to split B in ARO at all. It would be much easier to just include that in the ARO rules instead of mentioning it across 5 BS references just to forget CC AROs exist.
     
  7. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    I agree, but as currently structured the basic ARO rules only deal with a single active trooper.
     
  8. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Gotta disagree on that, "The Active Trooper" can be a lot of things at once.
    Which is the core problem, a lot of people try to argue "The Active Trooper" is the guy who triggered the ARO, when in reality there are just multiple Active Troopers and the Rules forgot to mention that is possible.
    Which for instance gets tricky if people in a Fireteam don't have/are not using Stealth vs a Hacker.
    There isn't any restriction that you have to use the ARO you got against the Trooper that triggered it, the ARO rules only mention "Active Trooper".
    So the ARO generated by a Celestial Guard walking through a Interventor's ZOC could be used against the Crane next to him despite using Stealth.

    Thankfully that is a rare interaction and so you don't really have to argue on the table about that.
     
  9. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Ekhm, many HD/AHD/KHD are linked now.

    Not to mention some aleph troops with repeater bots.
     
  10. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    That cancels Stealth anyway so the interaction doesn't occur and there is no discussion.
    Or what do you mean?
     
  11. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    What cancels stealth ? I'm talking about a link team sending scapegot to force enemy hacker to hack/reset the bait and then own hacker can kill enemy without fear of retaliation.

    For aleph the repeater bot goes into enemy hacker ZoC and controller uses stealth. Enemy must reset/hack the bot and then the controller hacks.

    AFAIK this interaction is quite easy to do, and we still don't have a clear answer how the rules work.
     
  12. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Core Links with Sixth Sense L2.
    But you seem to refer to the flipside.

    That never worked. Your non stealthed dude triggers an ARO and the Link Leader Hacker is an Active Trooper you can use that ARO against.
    Stealth doesn't prevent targeting and if someone else triggers the ARO you have every right to use that ARO against the Link Leader Hacker as he is an active trooper.
     
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  13. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Yes, it is the link which is active.
    Ok, so we have confirmation on that ? Great.
     
  14. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    No we don't. That's common sense applied, as usual with Infinity rules you'll find someone claiming Stealth prevents ARO declarations or some other interpretation trumps logic.
    Nothing official about that.
     
  15. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Still a grey Area. It's on the unsolved question list under "Stealth and Hacking ARO"

    Everyone logic is not the same. If it was, we wouldn't have dozens of rules subject with 2 to 4 differents opinion on what RAW and/or RAI means

    3 people core (or harris, triads) have burst 2 ARO and no sixth sense so the question is still here for FT
     
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