It's just a single poll, it doesn't really matter What probably is more damning is the real lack of women in the Infinity communuity, something which is a real shame. This is a good game, the models are really nice, and it's got a lot of options. Infinity should be really appealing to women, but it's not. Why is that? I think it's partially because it's a relatively niche part of wargaming which already has a lack of women involved, so as a percentage of a percentage you get a very small number. That said, I also think that more could be done to make the game appealing to women. And honestly? Even if getting rid of stupid shit like the tech-bee didn't get a single woman into the game? I'd still support dumping it, because that mini is embarrassing man. I wouldn't want that on my my shelf.
Wargaming is male-centric because, on average, men are more interested in (space) warfare and tin soldiers. I wouldn't say that the lack of female players is damning, because that implies some sort of deficiency or grievance, when it probably boils down to preference and the fact that Infinity is really niche, as you rightfully stated. Judging from the general aesthetics, I would imagine Infinity does have a certain appeal to the female wargaming demographic, even if there is oversexualization and a little pin-up here and there going on, but not all women are necessarily opposed to that. It's hard to make a substantiated accessment due to the lack of data, but my hunch is that there is nothing inherently problematic about Infinity that prevents female gamers from enjoing it.
My hunch would be that Infinity is probably better than many games, outside of some egregious examples. But I don't think that the community is particularly welcoming to women over other wargaming communities, for what it's worth. I also don't think that there's anything essential to men that makes them into wargaming or women that isn't. I think it's more the case that we're socialised to be into certain things, which isn't Infinity's fault But we have had this discussion in other parts of "nerd" culture for want of a better word. Comic book fandom was full of people saying that it's just something guys are into and women aren't, until it turned out that loads of women did like comic books but didn't feel comfortable in the community. Video games were for boys not girls, and girls just didn't like video games and oops, turns out that girls do like video games, and just don't like the community that marginalises, objectifies and verbally assaults them (and physically assaults them too at times). Similarly we have here people saying "well I don't think that girls are into wargames just, like, it's an inherently more male orientated hobby" and I say, says who? I think it's the case that the community can be unwelcoming to women and that probably a lot of women would like the hobby if only it wasn't filled with, well, people who act the way we do. And maybe I'm wrong. But I definitely feel like there's a lot of people who seem like they'd be happy if women just didn't play these games at all which... sucks.
This. :P Back to topic: Then where are they? My hunch is that there must be something doing exactly that. Any data I collected is highly annecdotal so I won't go into any detail about how many women I know playing other games and how few playing infinity. In short: a) many! b) few! ;)
I see where you are coming from, but I just don't see the evidence for it. Especially the whole marginalization of women in video games-thing is something I just have to disagree with. Having worked at a major games developer and publisher for quite some time, I can assure you that women are very well represented within the industry as well as in the games and communities. I agree that there prejudices against girl gamers in harcore competitive (!) gaming, which is an issue mostly due to highly competitive male gamers, but you will find that in any less competitive gaming space, they are thriving and enjoying quite a lot of privileges many of which men just don't. Being female can be a perk and that is also true for gaming. Interest in certain things and topics is also not exclusively socially constructed and there definitely are biological tendencies at work. That doesn't mean no woman can enjoy Infinity, but it means that they are less likely to compared to men. Most of them probably just don't care about wargaming that much. We don't have any data regarding this topic, so I'd go with the simplest explanation.
Marvel & DC, Magic The Gathering, Comic Gate, Gamer Gate, The New SJW Wars trilogy, Genderfield 5: Cyborg Wahmen. Seriously, how many industries must fail, burn and get subverted all in the name of catering to a demographic that is evidently uninterested in joining the community, while alienating the main consumer base who made the franchise to begin with? Stop this shit, stop projecting your stupid policies and progressive dogma unto a game of metal dolls, all in the name of virtue signaling.
Marvel is making 500 million dollars right now out of their new Captain Marvel movie and it is tipped to make a lot more. Star Wars topped a billion with the last instalment of their "SJW trilogy." The argument that these industries are failing because they are making movies that cater for the tastes of women and people who like to see women presented well and regularly is clearly factually incorrect. You may not like it but it is definitely the case. I am going to have to ask though, is this my progressive dogma or virtue signalling? Because if it's dogma then I would have to believe in it, but if it's virtue signalling them I only say it to look to to.. all the... women who post on this forum... oh wait there are barely any so perhaps rather than virtue signalling it's just actually my opinion? This is the problem with you guys. You just can't wrap your head around the idea that maybe some people actually genuinely do just believe this stuff when we say it. And there are a lot of us, and we spend money, and at the moment we clearly spend quite a lot of money based on the big cultural icons that are doing well right now. So maybe jump off your high horse and rather than throwing around insults actually take part in the debate? I would also ask why presentation of women in a good and positive way alienates you?
@Solar Honestly your staggering ingnorance and disgusting arrogance with how you’re looking down at your nose is infuriating. SJW Wars is part of an existing franchise, the worlds biggest in fact, so it was garaunteed to make money. But you’re living in insane denial if you think for even a second the movie wasn’t universally despised by fans, so much so that a massive boycott was made against the following Han Solo movie that it was the biggest flop of the SW franchise and put every single spin-off episode on hold for an indefinite time. The biggest cited reason for the boycott and lack of interest for Han Solo movie was how insulting the Last Jedi was, so you’re clearly talking shit. I have no idea where you’ve gotten that Captain Marvel number from, because the movie have barely boxed 150 million so far, and you have to be living under a rock not to see the controversy surrounding the movie, due to the racist and sexist remarks made by a so-called progressives Brie Larsson. Also, you’re a dumbass if you think Marvel & DC refers to the movie and not the comics. The comic book industry have fully embraced SJW ideology and is in fucking shambles because of this. The comic book industry has been on such a stark decline because of the open contempt for the fan base when the new woke writers shat all over the source material. Also I love how you can’t touch the issue of gamer gate or Genderfield 5, because those things are such embarrassing examples of woke devoplers shitting on their fan base and failed so hilariously that anyone even trying to refute this would be laughed out of the room. Literally go F yourself. Literally nowhere did I say anything that can justify this strawman and I hate how people like you actually assume this about other people, if we don’t adhere to your SJW dogma, as if you’re the arbiters of morality. That is not what I mean when I say alienate the fan base, you freakish zealot. Take 40k and the SJW’s who wants female space marines all in the name of representation, this would destroy and subvert so much lore and break fundamental rules said by the established universe that you would alienate the overwhelming fan base, merely for the sake of virtue signaling. This has literally nothing to do with us hating women or wanting to exclude them, or what ever it is you’re implying. Jesus fuck.
Without wanting to touch all of the ranting about Star Wars and that, since we're not talking about Star Wars and talking about say, gamergate would be a waste of time since you seem to think that gamergate is some sort of awful event when girls started to influence the videogames that got made and I think that gamergate is also awful because of all the nightmarishly misogynistic shit which got thrown around the internet because people thought girls were taking their games away... So, like If I said that I thought that there shouldn't be tactical heels in Infinity, what established lore and fundamental rules would this break? Seems pretty acceptable that they'd just wear flats or combat boots. Nothing wrong with that. In fact I doubt you'd even notice if they started sculpting it in. Incidentally female space marines is... well I probably personally would say no to female marines because I grew up with Space Marines and they're boys. At the same time, I don't play the game any more, they're only Space Marines, I don't have any real issue with it, and it would be extremely delicious to see all of the fanboys cry over female Marines, so I'd probably be pretty happy about it if it happened. Also lol, calm down
OK, think all of us were gone far enough (not excluding me). I would recommend to close this thread. It's an overall emotional theme where we will lead to no conclusion. We were here in a dead end and can begin this Diskussion in 4-6 month from the beginning.
I mean, there's one guy in here screaming at people that they're "freakish zealots" And it's pretty hilarious, I could watch this go all night. But it's not like oooh, both sides are as bad as each other! No there's like, some reasonable people having a discussion, and some people who just want to scream and rage and get the discussion shut down. And also, it occurs to me, that your initial comment was that we shouldn't be having this discussion, so your cries of "oh this has gone too far" ring a little false. Of course you're happy for the discussion to be closed, you don't want the discussion to be had at all. May I suggest the drastic solution of not taking part in the discussion if you don't want to? The rest of us can still talk about it. Like it may surprise you to hear this, but the reason why it comes up every 4-6 months is because it's important to a lot of people on the boards
Could we do a short overview for readers late to the party? Basically we have the following: A: I am offended by inappropriately dressed women in this game. It's very important to me! B: That is ridiculous. How can that be important? It's just a game of metal miniatures. A: Then can't they just be left out of this game? B: No! I am offended by a lack of inappropriately dressed women in this game. It's very important to me! I mean A and B both are maybe not acting 100% rational here considering this is about a game of metal dolls and toy houses and the actual people involved in the decision-making are not that likely to even visit this thread. I have my oppinion which of the two (A or B) has a higher percentage of rationality but we will not solve this anyway. Or did I understand anything wrong here? Probably yes because I also fail to understand how "I don't want scarcely clad women in my game" is a dogma and "I need scarcely clad women in my game" is not.
Perhaps. Although, having seen and heard from plenty of women that the effect of attitudes and arguments like these feel literally exclusionary, it doesn't seem that the intent is much excuse.
Hahahahahahhahahahahahhaahahaahhahahhahahahhahahah! Okay, so you’re actually waaay more ignorant on this subject than I initially thought, this is why none of what I’m saying makes sense to you. You’re way too misinformed. Also, no I’m not calming down. I’ve seen this since 2012, how many industries taking severe damage and getting subverted because of useful idiots like you.
I try to reach you the hand and have a try to deescalate the situation and return peace for a little time. I can life with the conclusion that we agree to disagree. Discussion only for sake of the Diskussion isn't healthy. And if you don't understand me, I don't want that anything changes cause it's the Manga esthetic I love. For me many franchises are dead, first of all the major Star Wars films (VII - IX). Not because there is a female lead, but the whole story of the new trilogy sucks from the beginning, what is the fault of Jar Jar Abrahams. We have problems in woman rights, and I don't think any of us will deny that. But I doubt that the combat heels discussion will change anything on this situation.
