E/M is indeed pretty good, no one doubts that. Also being veteran and imune to shock is awesome. But, like you guys said, a bit too situacional and meta dependant. They dont have anything that helps them modifier wise and are real expensive points wise. Good camos like spetznaz hmg have a field day with them
Yadu also suffer from internal competition. At their price point you can bring a Dasyu. Granted, less access to heay weaponry, but for dealing with most things in the game? BS 12 + TO Camo is *much* better than BS13. Although NWI withouth shock immunity can be risky because of the amount of shock floating around these days, but depending on your meta / your tables I would almost always prefer a Dasyu over a Yadu. Again - what Yadu bring that is unique is access to E/M and Mine Dispensers. That is not a ignorable advantage, but they are very pricy. If I want a E/M template I would always consider a Arjuna with disposable bots too.
For EM theyre also competing with Dart and the mk5 proxy, both of which are considered standout models
@MerloyJenkils - Not that I disagree with you (I don't, you're right) but can we not easily say that Spetnaz HMG makes +80% of infinity profiles miserable? XD I've never actually fielded a Dasyus yet but on paper, I can agree with @Wyrmnax's assessment. Especially when a good source of E/M delivery can be Arjun. Arjun has defensive tricks but paper armour with only 1W. Yadu have effectively 2 wounds with reasonable armour but no defensive tricks. I'm sure if someone does the maths on it we'd find their survivability is reasonably similar. When it comes to delivering the E/M though Arjun can do it better because he doesn't need to expose himself to do it (unless he wants to stack attacks to force a dodge or something). Yet to field him either though so this is just Theorinfinity which in my experience tends not to match the practical horror of tape measures and dice! @Kir - Both Mk5 and Dart are exceptional but, to me, have a very different purpose to the Yadu. Plus these 2 models have e/m nades not e/marat and I think that distinction is very important and a good reason why they shouldn't be compared. Neither is better than the other but again, different roles: You can spec fire with one and you never roll to hit with the other. Also in my experience, although the Nades have the ability to be used outside of 8", I will rarely do so in a F2F because I'll be B1 in active turn while at less than 50% chance to hit once you include the enemies modifiers (cover, ch:mim etc). In reactive turn when everything is B1, then I may contemplate hurling a grenade in response but particularly if you want to cancel out the enemy rolls, using the grenade out of 8" is limiting your likelihood to survive. Might as well dodge (or use Mk5 FO for flashpulse). Burning spare orders on hail mary spec fires though is something I've definitely done XD. I'm not saying its a great tactic. Just something I enjoy doing. If it works, comedy gold. If it doesn't and I wanted to turtle a bit (and have spare orders) then not a huge loss. Depends on how much of a gambler you feel like being at the time I guess. E/Marats though make for interesting choices. Guaranteed to hit, ignoring cover within 10" and a fat tear drop shape. I might be willing to sacrifice a Yadu if I have a good choice of isolating an enemy LT or breaking the enemy FT. Plus given the Yadu is a semi-tanky, she has a chance to actually live to tell the tale. But coming back to @Wyrmnax's assessment, Arjun+Kiranbots might be a better/safer/marginally cheaper option if delivery of e/m is the most important thing in this equation. Now I do accept that I'm a relative noob to OSS and having fancy stuff like e/m nades so its also entirely possible that I should be using them more out of 8" and therefore am only experiencing half the picture. It may very much be that e/m nades erases the necessity of e/marats and I just can't see it. But I have have a tumultuous relationship with probability so its hard for me to be definitive about anything whether its a BS weapon or a DTW. Even when I pop Nanopulsers against BTS 0 units I can't seem to bring them down XD
I think I killed more dudes with my Kuang Shi, firing pistols like gods, than with suprise shots form my various TO camo dudes... The last games I had some great success with the Boarding Shotgun Garuda. First, and thats very important, the model is totally awesome. Second I like the BS range band on him. Played him the last 4 games (instead of the SF variant) on different tables and I was glad, that I had the Boarding Shotgung instead of the Spitfire. And 21P for a 6-4 MOV Mimetism AD Dude is very cheap.
Totally agree, I find the spitfire garuda is too close after AD quite often. Also a little too expensive to just drop in a list, but the shotgun is cheap enough to throw in without affecting the rest of your list that much. I would recommend trying both, getting to choose the weapon for the board layout is amazing. I mostly like it because it's a fun list though.
I like combi on my garuda. 1 pt over a shotgun, has pretty much the same chances of winning a ftf because of the extra B and have more usable range, able to actually stay away from shotguns / dtws / mines. Agree on the spitfire though - it too often tends to be on the bad rangeband.
I read somewhere this weekend that +3BS is equivalent to +1Burst statistically - but they were comparing light shotgun to combi. Its interesting comparison when you're thinking of just the target you're smacking. But I think this comparison doesn't adquately value the template which ignores the cover on the target and also splashes behind. But I agree with you that combi has its place in many situations. The last 6/9 maps I've played on though have favoured having a BS over a Combi on the enemies side of the table. But the instances where combi range-bands were favoured, the BS was entirely useless and it was frustrating.
Yes. The problem with the combi is that the shotgun is still more effective at killing stuff. Better base damage to start, and ignoring cover is a great boon. If you ever have a template situation and you did not bring the template weapon then you really regret it. BUT, you can still kill the target with a combi. Statistically same chance of winning the ftf, but your damage will suffer a bit and you will need extra orders to kil the guy behind. But it still works. When you find yourself outranged on the shotgun, then you are *really* screwed. Or when you get overconfident and do a face-discover on a mine because you wanted to keep it under 8" thinking it was a troop. So yeah, it is a case of shotgun being better on its niche but much worse otherwise while the combi is decent all around. I also tend to find that my AD troops can many times catch people out of cover already, reducing the shotgun effective damage advantage significantly.
I would say the difference is A BSG is more likely to kill stuff, but a Combi is more likely to stay on the table. Being able to move into a spot your opponent needs to move through and drop into Suppression is no small factor.
Whatever you Rambo with always make sure that it ends the turn in Suppression Fire. It's so good for making your opponent waste orders.
Another unit I think is worth considering is the Naga minelayer. Not only is it excellent defensively. But a camo bs12 boarding shotgun can get alot of work done working in under the range of your oppinents ling range guns. Early on with OS I realised you had the domination of the long ranges but it was hard to push hard when your opponent turtles against you. Naga boarding shotgun, dart and proxy Mk5 all were units I felt helped alot in mitigating that.
While i like it too, most of the time i prefer the naga FO. Not because it is a specialist - i wouldn't consider taking a minelayer if i wanted a specialist - but because it has both a combi and a flash pulse. The combi's rangebands make it easier to find a way to assassinate a specific target, it can go into suppressive fire state, and it has a nice WIP 14 flash pulse, meaning it can perform very well as a speed bump.
I like the combi ones as more generalist unit. For active turn killers. The shotgun minelayer combo has worked very well for me. It's less survivable reactive however..
MK5/Dart: SMG Naga: Combi MK2: MSR I really love Boarding Shotguns (either Naga or MK2), but the Combi Loadout fits better into the mix with the range band.
The problem with the Boarding Shotgun MK2 is that it is actually a assault hacker. So when you face another hacker he gets the naugty trick of getting through your TO modifiers with a hacking attack. Combi is as killy as a BSG, but that moment when you get a template that hits more than 1 target is glorious. On missions that encourage moving forward I really like having a Dasyu BSG, because there are few things more fun than getting 3/4 members of a link inside the same template, and the Hidden Deployment means I mostly get to pick when I am going to use it.
AP mode and Dam 14 on the C BSG is a good option in the right situation too. Evens out the burst difference pretty well
