Is following the only correct way to deploy camouflaged minelayer and its mine: 1. Deploy camouflaged minelayer (Camo marker 1) 2. Deploy minelayer mine (Camo marker 2) 3. Say to your opponent: "You should probably look here, i'm measuring if the Camo marker 2 is in Camo marker 1 ZoC". 4. Measure if Camo marker 2 is in Camo marker 1 ZoC. If it's not, return to 2. --> Opponent always knows which camo marker is the minelayer and which is the mine. Similar case with ambush camouflage extra camo marker. For this reason, ambush camouflage is useless ability. --> No one plays like this and you can actually deploy mine/extra camo, deploy other models, deploy the original minelayer/ambush camo, move models and markers around and freely measure ZoCs all the time just to confuse your opponent?
You deploy all markers, eyeballing if the mine is ZoC of the minelayer. If needed, you can ask your opponent to leave you a moment for a secret deployment (it's done for Hidden Deployment units anyway). Personally, I had never needed to measure the distance, since I tend to place the mines closer to the model.
Eyeballing? Hiddenly measuring ZoCs during Hidden Deployment? Is this a full information game situation or not? What if there are errors? When/How do you take corrective action? You should try out my mines. They work the same way, but can be deployed further away. Also does it matter that I suck at eyeballing?
You are fully permitted to make measurements in order to respect the deployment conditions. What is under a camo marker is Private Information, which includes it needing to be inside the ZoC of its minelayer. Thus, if you need to check, without the opponent knowing one of the markers is a mine, the only way is to ask your opponent to not look, the same way you would do that for a Hidden Deployment troop you would place for a photo, then remove. There is a point, simply, where practicality needs some primacy. Unless you want to reveal there is a mine (or more) on the table, which one becoming obvious if one of the markers is Prone. As for my mines being "less further away", I seldom need them to.
I could argue that what is under camo marker is still (partially) private information, even if you are forced to measure ZoC publicly or deploy models in a way that gives a clue about their contents. But whatever. I'm happy that I got an answer. So you effectively deploy your camo markers in any order you like and measure ZoCs in secret? If there are any errors, you make secret corrections before the game starts.
Personally, I deploy all camo markers the last, and need no corrections because of using less distance (I'm used to eyeball less than 20cm due to having played the Greeks, and generic CA a lot... tons of smoke go that way XD). But yeah, you can ask your opponent to let you deploy without overlooking all.
Rules says « Honesty and fair play are conducive to a better gaming atmosphere, and all players benefit from that.» I include allowing my opponent to secretly mesure ZoC under that. Same as going away to allow for easy hidden Deployment.
But then what's the concrete solution? Personally I eyeball, or work backwards and deploy the mine, then the attached minelayer 1-2 camo markers after, while still respecting the ZoC requirement, deployment zones, etc...
not a long ago i recive related question from my players. we all know what camouflaged mines cant be proned. But how about Ambush camouflage decoy? cant find it out in the rules
It's not the Camouflaged marker that is Prone, it is the trooper that is under the marker. Ambush Camo is not a trooper.
If there's any doubt at all, you're going to have to measure ZoC. Also 'deploy the mine, then the attached minelayer 1-2 camo markers after' is definitely not allowed. The Mine must be placed in the Minelayer's ZoC, which doesn't exist until there is a Minelayer on the table.
Ok for not deploying the mine before the minelayer but I don't see any reason not to be able to do the opposite. Nothing forbids me to deploy my camo minelayer without using the minelayer skill, deploy other troops then change my mind and use the minelayer skill to deploy my mine Als, nothing forbids me to change the position of an already deployed camo marker (as long as it's still my deployment phase). So I can deploy my camoed minelayer and camoed mine, deploy 3 other camo marker then change the position of the mine
I suggest you re-read my post, there is no word infiltration used in there (because 99 % of the minelayer don't go in the opponent half of the table, some don't even have the infiltration skill) So : - no RAW forbids me to change my mine or minelayer position after deploying them (as long as they don't do an infiltration roll) - no RAW forbids me to deploy my minelayer without minelaying then change my minde and minelay (as long as I don't do an infiltration roll)
The rules for the interaction of Minelayer and Infiltration Rolls strongly infer that you must place the Mine immediately after placing the trooper. You're welcome to ignore that, but saying that 'nothing forbids' is misleading, at best.
I never say you don't have to deploy both together, I said you are allowed to change your mind and : - move them after deploying them (except when you do an infiltration roll) - change your mind about using the minelayer skill Please show me any rule that says "changing your mind" during deployement is forbidden. Of course it's not forbidden, everyone move, adjust and correct their troop location (and use of abilities like minelayer or hidden deployment) during deloyment. Nothing is fixed as long as you don't roll a dice or say "my deployment is finished" I have yet to see anyone deploying his whole army by putting every trooper in the right place the first time
Both of those claims are useless and meaningless. Please provide the rules which allow you to change your mind or reposition the minelayer.
Please provide rules that says I can't (regarding minelayer or any other troop) I'm looking for the "once placed, any trooper position is final" phrase here : Deployment Rules To deploy your troops on the table, follow these rules: The base of each troop must be entirely within the Deployment Zone. Troops cannot be deployed in base to base contact with enemy troops, neutral troops, Markers or Objectives, regardless of their Special Skills. If, at the beginning of his first Player Turn the player's Lieutenant has been not deployed by virtue of some Special Skill, such as Airborne Deployment, that player begins his first Player Turn in a situation of Loss of Lieutenant (see Loss of Lieutenant. When a troop deploys, its owner can choose to deploy it Prone. To do so, simply place a Prone Marker (PRONE) beside the troop. Unless otherwise agreed upon, troops cannot deploy in a location without enough space to fit their entire base. Changing my mind and changing any troops or deployable equipment location is not against any of the deployement rules (except specific case like infiltration roll or AI beacon). Therefore nothing forbids it. If you want to force your opponent to play "once placed, any trooper position is final" during deployment (which I never have seen played), you will need very solid RAW
'Therefore nothing forbids it' is not how the Infinity rules work. If you want to do something, you need to provide the rule that allows it. In the case of moving a deployed trooper, that permission is only given when making a Deployment Phase Coherency Check, and even that has further restrictions.
