I understand you want to break the interaction down, I respect players that do that it helps us to make the rule set better and tighter, that been said. It was never the intention to allow long skills and short skills to be merged in the same coordinated order, or different skills be merged, hence why coordinated order and hacking was not allowed, EVO changed that by allowing hacking and only hacking to do both, merge short and long skill orders together and declaring different skills. MMLX is a long skill attack that uses a BS attack and is intended to get all the BS modifiers possible for that BS attack ignoring cover. It has an attack label, but its effect is a BS attack so it does get the bonus, does this make any sense?
I liked my answer better: "It still involves a BS Attack roll and the MOD applies to BS Attack rolls." Which is saying the same thing, but clearer and without the requirement to understand CB's intent. And it's not only hacking. Nothing prevents you declaring a Short Skill Jump and a entire order skill Jump in a co-ord order. Mechanically it's the same as Cybermask co-ord with White Noise. Admittedly there's no point to doing it*, but it is legal. * The only reason there is no point is because the second short skill/short movement skill is lost. This is the result of interpretation and not strictly a necessary interaction. There's no reason that Jump + BS Attack should not be able to be coordinated with an Entire Order skill Jump.
It reads like it should have a variation of the first line in Speculative Fire "The user may make a single BS Attack against a target outside his LoF." The first line in MMLX is close to that and the intent, by the rest of the points is pretty obvious. If it read "This Special Skill allows a BS Attack by reducesing the B value of his weapon to 1, and in return applying to that single shot a +6 BS MOD." that would help. It would still lack the BS Attack Label protecting it from the FAQ on COs, but make it more consistent with the other rules out there in formatting.
I think this was all discussed on the first page on the thread. The only thing I was doubting was whether the description of the skill including the phrase "BS Attack" is sufficient to make it a BS Attack. Apparently not based on what IJW said. The 5-man fireteam bonus is a +3 mod to a BS Attack roll, not a a +3 bonus to BS, PH, or WIP on an attack.
Sorry for the necro. Did something change on the MMLX skill since this conversation? The first bullet point reads "The user may only benefit from this Special Skill when he declares a BS Attack." As I'm reading that, wouldn't it allow you to declare BS Attack inside a CO and then use this skill to change it to MMLX? Edit. Apparently that line is only on the Wiki and not the New Rules PDF. I don't have my copy of 3O on hand to check there.
Sorry I don't know what you mean. All rule texts are the same in the wiki, the book and the pdf. Edit: do you have the en version of the wiki? http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Marksmanship Other language version could perhaps not be updated, even when the rules text is in english Example: http://infinitythewiki.com/de/Marksmanship There's the old rule
As far as this thread goes no, because the FAQ only allows you to Coordinate "different" Skills if they have the actual BS Attack label. ... but alas there actually is another problem here. Other Entire Order Skills declare their use first, nest BS Attack in their effects and that's that. No problems. However, Marksmanship LX uses this wording under Requirements instead: The user may only benefit from this Special Skill when he declares a BS Attack. So you're technically never declaring to use the Entire Order Skill MMSLX. Instead MMSLX nests itself into a BS Attack which is quite problematic as it works exactly the opposite way as other Entire Order Skills invoking BS Attacks. So technically to use MMS LX you are declaring a regular Short Skill BS Attack and actually have to, as that is flat out required. Then the connection to MMS LX happens and you're technically also able to circumvent that it is an Entire Order Skill thanks to an interaction that doesn't really happen like this in the rules anywhere else. Take a second to dissect Speculative Fire. It doesn't turn a BS Attack into an Entire Order Skill. It executes an Entire Order Skill which effects happen to also perform a BS Attack. With MMS LX you do not declare the Entire Order Skill, you declare BS Attack. Lets forget that the reverse nesting could allow MMS LX to be declared as a Short Skill that way as that is clearly not intended (since we knew how MMS LX worked in its previous version). But you are forced to declare a plain old BS Attack, which then lets you activate MMS LX... and turns the thing into an Entire Order Skill you didn't declare for that trooper somehow. Still you are technically declaring the Short Skill BS Attack and should be able to use a Coordinated Order with others. TL:DR this isn't fixed if the aim was to prevent coordinating and there is another pretty wild problem in there.
Check again. From the wiki, page updated December 4th, 2018 From the PDF in downloads: I'm guessing it was an editing error on IJW's part when he updated the rule as the first bullet point on the wiki is identical to the first bullet point on the old skill
Are you native to an English speaking country? Otherwise at least for Germany you get automatically redirected to the wiki page for your country (if there is one) and those frequently have outdated pages that still appear in English... pretty annoying. Check if you have the /en version of the wiki in the URL. As an example the /de page for Marksmanship still has the old MMS LX rules in English...
His screenshot matches your first link. The second is from the PDF and doesn't match what's currently on the wiki
This is an error in the rules PDF, which missed out the first bullet point. The book and wiki are correct.
@ijw As noted above, the book has the same bullet points the PDF has. If the Wiki is correct, does that change our previous understanding of being able to Coordinate Order and LX as that bullet point makes it so you need to declare BS Attack before switching (?) it to MMLX?
@ijw any update on if that bullet point (just realized it is also echoing the only requirements in the Automatic Skills of MML1-2) is correct as it is not in print or the PDF?
