Smoke on the roof (from the ground)

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Arkhos94, Feb 25, 2019.

  1. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    My jaguar is in front of a building with a flat roof and an edge (like this one : https://shop.microartstudio.com/fr/decors/372-district-5-apartment-1-1-5900232356461.html)

    He want to throw a smoke to hide the intruder on the roof.

    He has no LoF on the roof itself because of the edge so he cannot throw anything here without using speculative attack. But can he throw his smoke on the edge of the roof ?

    Same question if the roof had no edge. Can he throw a smoke at the border of the rooftop ?
     
  2. HarlequinOfDeath

    HarlequinOfDeath Tha Taskmastaaa
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    He has to be able to see a 3x3mm square where he can gain LoF. Therefore he has to use speculative fire since even if you would allow to place the smoke he can't see the edge from above.
     
  3. Rocker

    Rocker Well-Known Member

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    He can throw it on the ground at the wall. This will also cover the roof in smoke in a half circle.
     
  4. HarlequinOfDeath

    HarlequinOfDeath Tha Taskmastaaa
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    It will not cover the roof that way. The smoke spreads from the point of the blast... Have to search the thread it was explained.
     
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  5. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    The other important point is that even though the Smoke Template is an infinitely tall cylinder, the blast focus of the template is still the point where you placed the template.
    The presence of scenery items on the game table can change a Template's Area of Effect as shown in the graphic examples.

    Each Template has a Blast Focus to determine if nearby scenery protects a trooper from the Template's effects. If LoF can be drawn from the Blast Focus to the trooper, then that trooper is affected by the Template. However, if the LoF cannot be drawn due to the presence of a piece of scenery, then the trooper is considered to be in Total Cover and is not affected by the Template.

    The Blast Focus is at the center of the Circular Template and at the narrow end of the Teardrop Templates.

    The Blast Focus can only draw LoF inside the Area of Effect of the Template.​

    As for whether smoke (or the circular template in general) goes down in addition to horizontally across and vertically up, the volume of a template is described as
    Templates used by Template Weapons and Equipment have a height equal to their radius or half their width (unless otherwise specified, as in the case of Smoke Special Ammunition,). To help determine the three-dimensional Area of Effect of a Template, add a second identical template perpendicular down the middle so the cross-section forms an X.
    That's pretty much mis-stating the actual height of the template when it's not placed with half of its volume intersecting the ground. Because if you take a teardrop template and rotate it around, it's height is equal to its diameter, not its radius. Unless you want to think about templates going up and down their "height" from their center.

    In other words, a regular circular template placed with its center at the top of a very sharp spike is (most of) a sphere, not a hemi-sphere.

    The same way that a model's ZoC is 8 inches tall in both directions (up and down), even though most of the time half of a model's ZoC is buried in the ground so it feels like the cylinder is only 8 inches tall:
    A trooper's Zone of Control is an area 8 inches extending from the border of its base, as measured vertically or horizontally. The Zone of Control is projected upwards and downwards in a cylinder 8 inches high.​

    What hampers the smoke template (assuming it extends downward as well as upward) is that most of the terrain that you're throw it onto is going to block all of those downward lines. You'd pretty much need to throw the smoke onto a sloped surface or needle point to get the smoke to extend downward. (And even for a sloped surface, you'd still most of the time end up with the same sort of result, but at an angle instead of horizontal.)

    If you throw a grenade at a trooper's head (or the top of their volume), you include them because the circular template extends down and there's no solid ground in the way downward. Unfortunately, I don't believe you can throw smoke at someone's head.

    Disclaimer: So if you want to add the Shape of Smoke of the unresolved questions list...
     
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  6. Gunmage

    Gunmage General Contact Unit

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    Not sure if this applies to smoke templates. The generated Zero-Vis Zone doesn't really use Template rules and Area of Effect:
    If that sentence used "Area of Effect" instead of "Circular Template", I'd agree with you.

    Edit: on the other hand, to be able to Dodge out of the Smoke, you do need to be in Area of Effect... but if the shape of smoke zone is affected by AoE, this generates a lot more questions, like does the area get recalculated if someone opens/closes a door in a wall within a smoke zone...
     
  7. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I think that only applies to other troopers.
     
  8. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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  9. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Why ? I can shot my shotgun at someone's head, what prevent me from throwing a smoke grenade at it ? I cannot even find a reason to prevent me from throwing a smoke at a friendly camo marker head.
     
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  10. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    As long as his head is on the ground you can do so.
    "Smoke Special Ammunition is a non-offensive ammunition, so it does not require an enemy—or, in fact, any trooper at all—as a target, and can be thrown at any point on the table."

    If smoke required to place a marker then it obviously would be on the ground (like mine and repeater) but there is no such rule.
    So one could think that like a shotgun it can explode in a point in the air, on a temporary target, and then stay there for the rest of the turn, but nope. The rule ask you throw it a point on the table table. That point becomes your target and is why if you coord or ARO you must select the same point, and also why if you don't see that target you must speculative fire.
     
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