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New Aleph player - Would love some advice on some basics

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by Challenger, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. Challenger

    Challenger Well-Known Member

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    hey guys!

    really excited to join the faction and the game! got in through coldfront :)

    I just had some questions about the basics of Aleph

    1 - How do you guys defend your deployment zone? It can be real chaos if something like Duroc with two chain rifles gets back there!

    2 - How do you deal with camo marker and mine spam? If it's not obvious my most frequent opponent is an ariadna player who brings 2-4 chassuers a game (4 in MRRF + mirage-5).

    3 - What's a good way to write Aleph lists? Do you always go for that really expensive rambo like Asura or Achilles or do you ever just use more discount pieces and get more orders?
     
  2. Regnator

    Regnator Well-Known Member

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    I suggest you check "Zavros guide to infinity", the guy explain the most common strategies used in the game and if i'm not mistaken there is a section about proper facing to optimize your aro.
    Aside from proper positioning i would suggest you try a zayin total reaction bot. Those babies sport an hmg and are able to aro at full burst with a 360° line of sight. Boost them with a support hacking program and it will force your opponent to spend ressources to deal with it if he trully want to advance on the table.

    He wants to spam camo ? You gonna love asuras. They are expensives minis and the best profile is locked behind a sectorial, but the combination of their multispectral visor level 3 and smoke template provided by the like of a myrmidon will allow you to to punish those puny guys disguised as a bushes with relative impunity.
    Also you could try a Marut, Marut are fun.

    Envoyé de mon LG-H815 en utilisant Tapatalk
     
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  3. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    Marut can work after lot of training, but Asuras are bad against spammed camo, and particularly against spammed Chasseurs. For that I recommend G:Sync units, specifically Devabots.
     
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  4. Kir

    Kir Well-Known Member

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    1 mines, sometimes hackers with decent guns, and things like zayins. TO camo also can help.
    2 mines, direct template weapons(flamers, nanopulsers,chain rifles), MSV (asura has autodiscover!), and sensor/satlock. Plus just dudes with decent WIP to make discover aros with.

    3 neither are super dominant in aleph. Netrods and posthumans seem to make it in more often then not though.
     
  5. Kir

    Kir Well-Known Member

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    Asuras are great against spammed chasseurs. You discover as an ARO, and delay your other AROs. Now your opponent either breaks camo himself to ftf asura with his BS against WIP15 to try and cancel the autosuccess, allowing your other AROs to shoot( often unopposed), or he doesnt and he gets discovered and shot at by the delayers.even better when smoke is popped, which lets the asura not get ftfd due to no visibility from the chasseurs (discover is not shooting a gun and thus doesn't give your opponent the ability to fire at -6 bs attack)
     
  6. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    ... What?

    What?

    What?

    I'm sorry, but what? That's not how any of that works. If Chasseur doesn't reveal himself, any ARO that delayed loses ARO chance, no matter that Asura will automatically succeed at Discover. If Chasseur reveals themselves by shooting Asura, then yes, any other AROs can shoot but Asura does nothing, just eats the shots from Chasseur. No WIP15s nothing.
    But here's the thing. Chasseur will not reveal. It'll just keep going cover to cover, recamoing as needed between dropping mines and doing objectives. If Asura is peeking out, he'll engage you with a linked HMG or linked Molotok, probably outside Asura good range, and just remove it from the board without much trouble.
    MSV3 is slightly more useful in its active turn, but there you have problems of often needing to come within 20cm of camo markers and risking that LFT.
     
  7. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. It's odd, but that's what the rules say:
    • However, if you choose to delay your ARO, you may only declare it if the Camouflage Marker revealed itself with its second Short Skill. If the Marker does not reveal itself, the reactive trooper loses his right to ARO.
    http://infinitythewiki.com/de/Camouflage_and_Hiding_(CH)

    Maybe, OTOH, you can argue that Discover does not reveal the marker, but forces it to reveal itself. The wording for Discover is not specific in this regard:
    • If the user passes a Normal WIP Roll, his target is no longer represented with a Camouflage, TO Camouflage, Impersonation (...) Marker, and must be represented by the actual Trooper model or Weapon or Equipment Marker.
     
  8. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    Hi there, welcome to the game and to ALEPH ;)

    Ad.1: Defending your DZ is a complex topic, especially given the cost of our troops. We can't really afford to leave too many of them on guard duty. But there are options.

    • Direct defense. For long range ARO: snipers, especially those with Camo, Missile Launcher, HRL... Linkable ones work great, if you're playing a sectorial. Agema, Phoenix, Dakini sniper, linked Samekh, Yadu HRL, Zayin remote, etc. For medium range troops in Suppressive Fire mode if you're going first and can set it up. Agema Mk12, Rudra, Myrmidon with Spitfire, etc. For short range - troops with shotguns and template weapons are scary even in reactive turn. Thorakitai SMG/Chain are very good for this, and they're cheap as well. For every layer the trick is to deploy in a way that favors your range bands, and leaves enemy with few good options. Your long range troops should cover one or two long fire lanes. If they can see the whole table the whole table can see them, and this would give your opponent too much flexibility when choosing how to deal with them. Suppressive Fire should be set in place that won't allow the enemy to engage from over 24", even better if they have to venture closer then 16", and at the same time they can't get a template into range easily (some troops, like Rudra, can weather a template, though). Short range defenders should cover chokepoints, forcing enemy to walk into the range of a shotgun, SMG, Chain Rifle or Nanopulser.
    • Surprise. Try to predict enemy attack route and place TO Camo troops to cover them. When enemy moves into position to attack one of your other troops you can ARO with both units, forcing enemy to either split fire, dodge, or eat an unopposed attack.
    • Mines. ALEPH has only one native Minelayer (Naga, and it's a very good choice), and few mines. but we can still use them. And mines don't care about Camo or Smoke.
    • Distraction. When going first push an aggressive unit - like Penthesilea or Rudra - deep into one of his flanks, set it in a good position and Suppressive Fire. Now he has to deal with this unit instead of going for objectives, or he can score - and leave his DZ wide open for a next turn sweep.
    Keep in mind, that the whole point of defense isn't to kill active troops (though that's the best scenario), but to slow your opponent down, so that he has to spend multiple orders without gaining much. Forcing him to take a detour, attack your units on your terms, having to heal or repair something, spending multiple orders moving a warband up close, only to have your hidden Dasyu shoot it in the back when it's on your side... the more orders he has to spend to achieve anything, the better.

    Ad.2: MSV, mines and templates are the main anti-camo tools. A slightly more advanced counter involves Lamedh remotes and a Sensor (either Daleth remote or a Deva). You can use Coordinated Orders to move your Lamedhs and Daleth up the field, deploy Sniffers in a way that covers most - or all - enemy camo markers, and use Sensor to reveal all of them at once (and they can't re-camo until they leave Sensor/Sniffer range). Then you sweep in with your infiltrators and AD troops like Garuda or Ekdromos to clean up.

    Against Mirage-5 and enemy AD troops in general - keep table edges covered with ARO units. Ariadna has no Combat Jump troops, and even players that have it rarely risk it (some will, though).

    Ad.3: There are few basic guidelines for creating a good list, which apply to ALEPH as well as other armies:
    • Orders. They're the blood of your army. Have at least 8 Regular orders in your main combat group (so no more than two AD, hidden TO, irregulars, etc). If playing multiple combat groups it's better to split them for example 10/4, than 7/7.
    • Firepower. You should be able to cover all ranges. 1 sniper or Missile Launcher for long range, 1 HMG as a general purpose attack weapon, 1-2 Spitfires on dedicated assault units. HRL is quite universal, good in attack and defence, especially when linked. Mk12 is more of a big rifle than assault weapon, but it can work in this way too. You will also need at least some (1-2) template weapons and shotguns for close quarters
    • Mobility. You'll have to be able to reach objectives and enemy troops in minimum possible amount of orders. Infiltration and AD allow you to deploy a specialist or assault unit much closer. Faster movement on units like remotes helps to move them into position quickly. This also applies to deployment. If your unit will have to advance, plan your route and deploy accordingly.
    • Specialists. They're necessary for most missions. Your list will need about 5-6 different specialists to score, as well as perform their main functions (that's mostly about Docs and Engineers)
    • Cohesion and redundancy. Your list should play well together. If you're playing with a strong centerpiece, like Achilles, Asura, or Marut, you need to support it properly with long range AROs, infiltrator screen, Engineer backup, etc. You always need a plan B for when your main attacker goes down. This is important regardless of what kind of list you're making.
    Special note: Netrods and Posthumans. Netrods are always useful, as they're a cheap way to pad our order count and balance our units cost - but you have to remember that they can scatter during deployment, and land outside of the table or somewhere where it'll be easy for your opponent to destroy them. Posthumans are awesome, easily one of the most useful and powerful troops in the game (it varies from Proxy to Proxy), and for that reason it's best to learn how to play without them, so they won't become a crutch.

    Happy hunting ;)
     
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  9. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    Errrr... That was my point? It is certainly not what Kir said.
    Successfully Discovering a Camo marker in your Reactive turn does not allow other troopers who held their AROs to shoot the Camo Marker.
    Don't try to weasel your way around. Look at 2nd example on Discover page (emphasis added by me):
     
  10. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    To me that is what he said. But nevermind...
    I did. And in that example neither of the two is delaying. So that example is about a different situation.
    Too sad they didn't tell us in the last example what happens if Angus was to succeed his discover roll, even if the marker keeps on moving as its second short skill.
     
  11. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    Why would they bother? It's quite clear. Marker is discovered in the resolution phase, Bipandra doesn't get to ARO.
     
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  12. Kir

    Kir Well-Known Member

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    Right, so what you do is instead of delaying ARO you shoot instead. In both cases he will be revealed, and will probably decide to shoot something instead. And as mentioned, smoke means any ariadna hmg is doing fuckall against the asura.
     
  13. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    ... You cannot shoot until marker is discovered. You can: a) Discover, b) Delay, c) Dodge, d) Change Facing.

    Look, please just don't give advice until you know how to play the game.
    a) Somebody has to first throw that Smoke down.
    b) 5-man link gives you Sixth Sense, meaning if Asura shoots, they just shoot back without penalty. Alternatively, if Asura does nothing, they keep moving up.
     
  14. Kir

    Kir Well-Known Member

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    Right, Please also don't give advice until you know how to play the game. Discover is not shoot, nor an attack, so they can't use Sixth Sense against it. I was transferring in a train with train internet so apparently half of my post got lost, but i meant shooting after everyone discovers the first ARO. If they shoot against someone not an Asura, it's FtF, and ALEPH has good WIP. If they shoot against the Asura, she can handle bloody chasseurs shooting at her for one order. Best case a Chasseur AP sniper hits thrice and the asura needs to roll above a 11 once to survive. And as mentioned, with smoke they don't even get to shoot her. Afterwards, the link can be shot at since at least one will be discovered, potentially more, and any orders spent to recamo can be used to discover other members in sight. If they pull the entire team into cover to recamo without casualties and then do so i've already won on order efficiency.

    Also, there aren't many things better at decloaking a Chasseur link then an Asura in aleph. Sensor/satlock needs to throw a sniffer and succeed at a satlock/sensor roll, flamers need to be way too close and can be outpromted by the chasseurs mines. A Chasseur Core is also signficantly more expensive then an asura is, so she doesn't need to do it alone by any means, nor is it a bad thing if she manages to decloak and partially kill some before dying. Also, if any of the chasseurs declare shoot, they're all decamoed because they all declare it even though only one gets to do it.
     
    #14 Kir, Feb 12, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  15. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    That's the important point. Thanks for pointing it out, I often forget about it myself.

    Everything happens simultaniously.
    So even if you try to Discover as ARO in response to the first short move skill,
    the resolution (of all AROs) does not happen until the end of that whole order.
     
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  16. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    @Kir - Seriously? Chasseur core? 3 shots with AP Sniper? What does WIP have to do with shooting face-to-face with... I give up. Can please someone else point out all the rules problems with what they just wrote.
     
  17. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Chassuer's are not linkable so I'm not sure where you are getting a burst 3 sniper rifle from. Also you can't be in a link in a marker state (even if Chassuers could be in a link).
    I honestly have no idea why you think Aleph WIP would factor into any of this unless your delaying units are using Flash Pulse.
    It sounds like you are talking about ARO situatiuons, so having smoke down is iffy at best. Especially if the activating unit is a camo marker and doesn't give you the ARO to drop smoke (Discover or Delay only remember)

    Yeah that link doesn't exist. Nor does being in a marker state while in a link (Holo1 Isn't a marker state), but I already said both those things.
    Sensor doesn't require a sniffer to be dropped. It is handy to do so you can increase your sensor range, but not necessary. Also Devas auto-succeed on sensor (WIP 15+6, no neg mods) and Daleth are on 19s, not a huge worry there.

    back to where this all started to see if I can help.
    There is no FtF with the Asura if they reveal. Your Discover turns into an Idle as you can not Discover a revealed unit.
    If the camo unit doesn't reveal the other units do not get to use their delays. The auto-Discover would not come into play until Resolution, at which point it is too late to declare other AROs (even if the rules did not specifically state that you do not get to use Delayed AROs when the unit does not reveal itself)
    Yeah, still no FtF for the Asura as noted above.
    With the Asura (not the best unit for ARO against flamethrowers) you are better off Delaying your AROs against Camo if you suspect they might attack. You ignore all the Mods they throw at you due to MSV3. Force the FtF while other units Discover or Delay to get that nice Normal shot. Though a smart opponent would likely let the Asura take their shot unopposed and use their mods on units they work on.

    I honestly have no idea where the HMG came into the conversation about Chassuers.
     
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  18. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    HMGs came into discussion because I pointed out that any Asura that can ARO against midfield Chasseurs is likely easy to be engaged by a linked HMG.
     
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  19. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    I'm short on time: Against Ariadna Auras are wyrmfood, Achilles will destroy an Ariadna army like this <snaps fingers>...
     
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  20. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    Auras -> Asuras
     
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