Problem with Bao fireteam is that it prevents you from getting smoke in a fireteam without heavy CT spending or accepting that Bao will only get Haris. And it costs a metric tonne to run Bao If Bao were "wildcard" like Zhanying or could get a few cheaper troops slotted in like Hafza and Djanbazan or if Celestial Guard could form Haris or if the Light Shotguns could get left at home... But mostly they don't have HMG. It's all these tiny things which don't seem like anything worth writing home about until you sit down and make a list and realize that, once again, you added a CG Hacker and two Rui Shi and they'll probably vastly outperform the much costlier Bao. @Fire@Will they removed X-visor from Boarding Shotgun + Contender profiles with the HSN3 ISS refresh. You're stuck with non-FAT Light Shotguns.
I'd probably take the Haris over a full team, but having spent time with Druze in Ikari, I think there's mileage in small, specialised teams. This one brings a specialist (who can switch to whichever combat group has the most resources late game, for free...), and supported by a CG smoke grenadier has another means of clearing the midfield late game - and as you close in, that x-visor becomes less of a requirement. Imperial Service──────────────────────────────────────────────────3 PHEASANT IMPERIAL AGENT (Chain of Command, Fireteam: Haris) Red Fury / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 36) BÀO TROOP (X Visor, Multispectral Visor L2) Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) BÀO TROOP (Multispectral Visor L2, Biometric Visor L2) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) 1.5 SWC | 86 PointsOpen in Infinity Army Sure, you might want your HMG with MSV2. If only there were a way to get that in ISS...
Yes, if only. But that's the thing, CELESTIAL GUARD Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21) RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20) RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20) 2.5 SWC | 61 Points The above will vastly outperform that fireteam and can conduct a two-pronged attack vector and is fairly likely to be recoverable by the Sophotect if something untowards should wreck one of the attack pieces while... HSIEN HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 61) ZHÀNYING (Fireteam: Haris, Sensor) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nimbus Grenades / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 27) ZHÀNYING (Sensor) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nimbus Grenades, MadTraps / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 28) 2.5 SWC | 116 Points ... the above is more expensive by as much as the Rui Shi "team" is less expensive, a Hsien setup also brings a lot of tools either in the form of MadTraps depicted above that'll keep them safe from heavy attack pieces until the traps are cleared or a FO or Hacker Zhanying to regain a Specialist into the team. In either case, those Zhanying are SSL2 and can ferret out Ninjas and other HD melee monsters for you to shoot up (HD Snipers/Missile Launchers tend to situate themselves in locations that makes them extremely difficult to Sensor) Bao sadly is that middle ground where they are too expensive compared to internal competition or too weak compared to the other internal competition. In either case, going back to the original topic. For the Pheasant sniper, you can only bring one Pheasant to a Core that contains Bao, but the same restriction isn't there for the Haris, so the below is a legal Fireteam if you have the SWC to spare and want to have a bit of MSV2+Smoke going on: PHEASANT IMPERIAL AGENT (Multispectral Visor L1, Marksmanship LX) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32) PHEASANT IMPERIAL AGENT (Chain of Command, Fireteam: Haris) Red Fury / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 36) BÀO TROOP (X Visor, Multispectral Visor L2) Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) 3 SWC | 95 Points Open in Infinity Army
Sorry but BSG Bao does NOT get the X-Visor. But does get the MSV2 at least. I think so. Even not in a link. Assuming both in cover Pheasant using MLX with DA Ammo: BS12, +3 Range, +6 MLX, No Cover, No Mimetisim=21 Kamau: BS13, -3 for cover, +3 for range=13 Lunah would have the -3 Mimetisim to deal with on the Kamau and could do Surprise shot but only once. Her own camo/Mimetisim means nothing to the Kamau. Also against that Kamau, her Viral would go against his BTS of 6. Now think about adding in Nimbus Grenade! 21 goes down to 18 and the Kamau is -3 more to 10. If Kamau is in a link team his burst goes down one as well. And as said, in a link the Pheasant would have a further +3 for 5-man team but doesn't get the +1 burst.
I'm not disputing the killing power of the Rui Shi, but either of these aren't mutually exclusive. Besides, that combo doesn't have fireteam efficiencies, so isn't moving the specialist up to objectives. And, it is vulnerable to hacking, especially to killer hackers reaching the Celestial Guard through either repeater. It also costs twice the SWC, and if you're factoring in a Sophotect, then they're comparable points investments. Again, nothing in the Bào team prohibits a Sophotect, so thats not a counter-argument per se, but those support pieces become more tempting once you're invested in them. Likewise, a Pangulling EVO might be tempting for Over clock, to boost the ARO potential of the Rui Shi, so they compete with the Bào link in the reactive turn, but it's more points still. I like the Hsein haris, a lot, but that Bào team let's you squeeze in a Rui Shi for the same cost, and nearly the same SWC...
You forgot the Kamau's link team. It's the core link that makes it crazy, without the link it's just another Nisse.
It's a lot of give and take. While the Rui Shi doesn't have Bao's Fireteam bonuses, the longer range and Marksmanship are both effectively +6 to BS while the extra shot over the Bao´s primary gun is effectively +1 Burst. The Bao have a few things going for it, but in general I haven't had a problem pushing these super-annoying blighters that are Rui Shi down my opponent's throat, mostly because the Repeater goes offline when the Rui Shi goes UNC-1/2. I'm really missing utility with Bao, they are too similar to Rui Shi in basically only doing one thing (shoot) Hsien Haris is when the Sophotect gets a bit tight. While we're still looking at attack options that's all below 100 points, it all adds up, even with Kuang Shi as order generators. Above all else, you want an option to the Hsien in terms of getting the job done if the Hsien is backed into a corner. Same for the Bao. I've had fun running two kitties and a Bao team in limited insertion format against Shasvasti, however, even with extremely fast attack options, MSV2 sniper and smoke support, well... on paper this should be good against camo, but the order drain of Discover shouldn't be discounted. Didn't manage enough orders to bring the crate/flag even half way across the board after excavating the Shas side. (And, well, the board was lovely, but a rain forest means a lack of verticality and a real risk of a cramped DZ)
No on the first part I was assuming it's one on one. Well I did remember it for the Nimbus showing it would be less burst but yes I forgot the +3 for a full man team. So if both are in teams. Add another +3 to both. One at 24 vs. two on 16. Since there's not expanded crits for shooting, it's not a good trade off. It comes down to who rolls a little better. But again, if you pair it with Nimbus, the Pheasant is back to the advantage. It's 21 vs 13 and with only one shot.
Kamau will nearly guaranteed be in a 5-man when we're talking VIRD. Also means Surprise Shot is useless. Spoiler: Lunah Active Player 29.07% Major Lunah, ex-Ariesteia! Sniper inflicts 1 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Unconscious) 9.16% Major Lunah, ex-Ariesteia! Sniper inflicts 2 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Dead) Failures 22.17% Neither player succeeds Reactive Player 48.76% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Major Lunah, ex-Ariesteia! Sniper (Unconscious) 28.62% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Major Lunah, ex-Ariesteia! Sniper (Dead) Spoiler: Lunah with intervening Nimbus Active Player 37.53% Major Lunah, ex-Ariesteia! Sniper inflicts 1 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Unconscious) 11.65% Major Lunah, ex-Ariesteia! Sniper inflicts 2 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Dead) Failures 32.60% Neither player succeeds Reactive Player 29.87% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Major Lunah, ex-Ariesteia! Sniper (Unconscious) 12.14% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Major Lunah, ex-Ariesteia! Sniper (Dead) Spoiler: Pheasant, 5-man using MMSLX Active Player 61.39% Imperial Agent, Pheasant Rank (MSV 1) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Unconscious) 36.70% Imperial Agent, Pheasant Rank (MSV 1) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Dead) Failures 14.42% Neither player succeeds Reactive Player 24.20% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Imperial Agent, Pheasant Rank (MSV 1) (Unconscious) 11.70% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Imperial Agent, Pheasant Rank (MSV 1) (Dead) Spoiler: Pheasant, 5-man using MMSLX with intervening Nimbus Active Player 72.29% Imperial Agent, Pheasant Rank (MSV 1) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Unconscious) 40.46% Imperial Agent, Pheasant Rank (MSV 1) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Dead) Failures 12.90% Neither player succeeds Reactive Player 14.81% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Imperial Agent, Pheasant Rank (MSV 1) (Unconscious) 5.69% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Imperial Agent, Pheasant Rank (MSV 1) (Dead) Spoiler: Pheasant, 5-man, Move-Shoot Active Player 45.87% Imperial Agent, Pheasant Rank (MSV 1) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Unconscious) 29.41% Imperial Agent, Pheasant Rank (MSV 1) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Dead) Failures 18.62% Neither player succeeds Reactive Player 35.51% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Imperial Agent, Pheasant Rank (MSV 1) (Unconscious) 17.46% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Imperial Agent, Pheasant Rank (MSV 1) (Dead) Spoiler: Lunah, Move-Shoot
It's pretty safe to assume both targets will be in cover and that brings the odds down quite a lot (53%/17% in favour of the 5man pheasant mmslx). Although worryingly that is probably still the best option in a straight fight (without nimbus grenades - I haven't run those numbers). Dropping the Liu Xing on the fireteam to maximise the chances of taking out at least one is also potentially valid (even at the pitiful 25% ko chance per target assuming you've landed in the right place). However, these are all bad options. The good option is a co-ordinated order between something utterly expendable and an HMG equipped Hac Tao or Daofei. The bait triggers an ARO while the Hac Tao moves into position, then fire on the second action knowing the Kamau can do nothing. 75-80% success rate and 0% chance to lose your primary unit. Other camo units can also perform this trick but none have the reliability of these two options.
I feel like you're doing something potentially illegal here. They should have the option to fire at the Hac Tao or Dao Fei with the kamau.
MMLX was modified in 3rd offensive and now ignore cover, both the -3 to hit and the bts/arm bonus. That's why it's now a very good skill, albeit difficult to use. The kamau can still decides to delay against the hac tao/daofei, or just dodge if he really don't want to risk eating free shots from the other guys.
If I'm gonna coordinate orders to down a Kamau sniper, Lunah and the Pheasant coordinating MMLX seems like the way to go. Can we coordinate the snipers using MMLX and have some kind of HI beater fire a HMG or something in the coordinated order? Technically we're declaring a BS attack short skill to declare using MMLX in the first place. EDIT: Yes we can. FAQ says anything that's labeled a BS Attack can be coordinated. EDIT EDIT: No we can't. MMLX doesn't have a BS Attack label. ROFL. Because that makes sense.
I guess it would follow the same logic as a Triangulated Fire shot, which I guess follows the same pattern; the shot it seems is nested within a long order ?
nope you can coordinated triangulated fire with other types of BS attacks, it has a BS Attack label unlike MMLX.
I can see that now, although how do short and long skills interact with models having to declare the same skills? And, can other Attacks be simultaneously declared? This is really helpful for me, thanks!
Basically everything turns into a long skill. Anything using a short skill BS attack forfeits the other half of the order.
The general concept still works. You coordinate Lunah, the Pheasant, and say a buffed TR Husong spearheading into position to fire on the Kamau. Reactively the Kamau needs to fire on the Husong because it has the greatest chance of outright killing the Kamau if unopposed. If the Kamau is still standing at the end of that, coordinate Lunah and the Pheasant to kill the Kamau with MMLX. Neither of them can miss and it's going to come down to the Kamau trying to pass 2 saves against Lunah's Viral Rifle as they'll oppose the Pheasant, Lunah's 64% to kill the Kamau on her own unopposed. Stastically speaking the Husong should be unconscious not dead at this point, so you repair the Husong as the final order of the sequence. Rui Shi is a good alternative as well. Even if you advance it in the open against the Kamau it's a 77% chance it's only unconscious not dead. If you hold the Pheasant as your reserve piece as the player going first, you can probably just set up straight away so Lunah and the Pheasant have LOF to where the Kamau is gonna be and just to straight to the second coordinated order. Speaking of all these coordinated orders though. In hindsight the list I posted earlier would be far better served if the combat groups were organised like this Mowang ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 8 MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) PANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) PANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MÓWÁNG (NCO) MULTI Rifle, Flammenspeer / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 52) ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) GROUP 2 4 5 4 HÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) MAJOR LUNAH Viral Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29) PHEASANT IMPERIAL AGENT (Multispectral Visor L1, Marksmanship LX) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32) HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 298 Points Open in Infinity Army Afterall, the Pheasant and Haidao both bring Free Agent to the table. Any turn that it's needed they can always be moved to fill out combat group 1.
The list is good, one thing I'm meddled is lack of KHD.. But well we're talking about using MSR, so in that manners this is quite good list indeed. Mowang seems to be our great addition; all the options are awesome, assuming we take Daoying LT as auto-include.
