I know that PanO is not famous about his vanilla lists outside maybe some niche dual TAG mumbojumbo, but I only play PanO so i'll ask it here. Is there a faction that really favours the diverse vanilla roster over the sheer order efficency and bonuses of the fireteams, provided by the sectorials? And what are the key elements that make those vanilla lists work? I for one can't see myself playing vanilla ever, i'm so used to fireteams (yeah i'm a HSN3 baby)
Ariadna. Double Spetsnaz & double Chasseurs & 3 Foxtrots. No need to further elaborate I presume. Runner up Aleph. Achilleus with Posthumans
Vanilla YJ is a very strong contender around my local meta and is very popular. Ariadna as well. Vanilla Aleph may be considered by some the strongest faction in the game, due to the sheer number tools and flexibility. PanO is actually one of the odd men out in the aspect that it's sectorials are generally stronger than it's vanilla.
Haqqislam. Very strong skirmishers, (Like the Hunzakut), a great array of specialists, awesome heavies, units that excel at trading up, and insurmountable faith!
If you think Haqq is good at trading up and has good skirmishers you should try Ariadna, nothing quite like tearing a Jotum to shreds with a 15pt Antipode pack!
In fact, even Vanilla PanO is strong. It is just that units that are loved are in a very limited availibility in generalist. Regulars are amazing but only AVA 2. The same for Auxilias and Kamaus. Bolts really need to be in more than 3 in the midfield to really shine and need the order efficiency of the FT. Knights are only AVA 1 each and it is the same for a lot of elite units (Hexas, Swiss guard...). Add to this that there are additionnal SWC costs on some MO profiles and this explain why Vanilla is left away. In comparison, the other generalist armies have access to their critical units in enoug number to play with it. 4 chasseurs is crazy good but two with Foxtrots, Strelock and Scouts is really good too. So PanO players tend to choose the gameplay they favour and take benefits of increased AVA and sectorial exclusive troops and profiles instead of playing generalist. I personnally am more a sectorial player as I still have some problems to not make again and again the same kind of lists in Vanilla. But I had considered and I'm still considering it for French satellite.
Yeah, I think vanilla PanO suffers a bit from AVA issues, and from not having a whole lot of super-similar profiles that are in different sectorials. Vanilla Ariadna can do the 2x Chasseurs + 2x Foxtrots game, which is basically the same AVA as if you were playing a sectorial. Vanilla YJ has enough different HI (either by weapon in a high-AVA unit or by different low-AVA units) that you can do some wicked things, and that was before IA dropped! Now, you can put down 5 camo markers, three TO, and and 6 Mimetic troops (plus 3 Mimetic REMs), which leaves about two models on the table that don't have some kind of BS mod. Vanilla Haqq means you can have Hunzakuts. They might be Irregular, but you'd spend an order on them every turn anyway. Vanilla Nomads means you can have all the cool stuff. Even my "Boarding Party" (every model with either Zero Gee or Multiterrain) seems to work better in Vanilla than in Corregidor, as I get Prowlers, Spektrs, Zeros, and Kriza Boracs in addition to all the usual Corregidoran badassery. I think vanilla Combined is a little overshadowed by Onyx. Most of the must-haves in Vanilla, plus fireteams. Dunno about Aleph. NA2 are obviously sectorials only, as are Tohaa at present.
You also get most of the Hassassin shenanigans while also being able to bring a TAG and some truly fantastic specialists. As to this quote; the simple little hunzakut may not seem like a lot, but players from a lot of factions would die for her. She's a powerhouse.
Didn't even think about that! A Fiday in your own DZ and a Mag Guard across the table is setting a person up for an ugly Turn 1! She's actually about 2-3pts cheaper than a Nomad Zero but with +1WIP. That's probably the best (and quite possibly least-appreciated) profile in the game. Camo Infiltrating WIP14 specialist for 18pts.
No Charontid, no Avatar, no Hungries, no Speculo, no Daturazi, no Krakots and as of Third Offensive no Libertos. What vanilla must haves does Onyx have, IA Bacons and Ikadrons? Sure, linked unidrons supporting a Sphynx are great, and I really like Overdrons, but I'd still put Vanilla way above Onyx. Vanilla CA is pretty great.
Basically all of them favor vanilla. The only exceptions are for factions that have very strong sectorials (ISS, for example). PanO is far and away the exception, and it's probably the result of PanOs design fundamentally centering around shooting, so sectorials improve the shooting without really affecting the quality of specialists...
Have you realized that Varuna is already out? You are right with the other PanO sectorials, but Echo Bravo and Zulu Cobra are decent specialists.
They're good but not really on better than any other faction. The specialist profiles on the Zulu are far and away the weakest, and the reason you take the specialist EB is for the WildParrot... If anything, VIRD is more evidence of my point -- why play vanilla where those units are AVA1 when you can play VIRD, get a Fusi/Orc/Kamau link that has enough flexibility that you'll basically always have +3BS and +1B, and still take those specialists?
PanO has changed, in particular the inclusion of varuna units and the changes to MO knights means that there is now a serious breadth of increased options in vanila pano. theres real reason and choice now to mix units from different sectorials as opposed to before where evey sectorial had units that do the same job
Vanilla PanO deserves a revisit from the player base. For a long time, I made fun of it as being the least appealing of the Vanilla offerings, out of all factions in the game. As @daboarder says, I think it's been improved a lot by recent releases. That being said, I probably won't be the player who takes that deep-dive into experimenting with Vanilla. But I wish the best of luck to my fellow players...
Yeah, I've spent the last year playing Vanilla and was going to move on to Acon... Perhaps a little more time could be found...
Vanilla Aleph is the best way to field a Marut (has smoke contrary to sectorial). Probably also the best way to field Achilles (has posthumans and nagas/dart/dasyus as support) or Patroclus. Some tactics are easier or more point efficient, like using dakini HMG + hacker combo and AD4 ekdromos/Diomedes (since said hacker can give a +3 to PH13 AD, making it quite reliable). Aleph's sectorials are very specialised (SP having no skirmishers, OSS no warbands) in contrast with the generic army.
