My experience with those kinds of fireteam from ISS has been... poor. CB has said (of the Zhanying - a model that costs the same as the HI unit they join!) that these LI give the full 5-man firepower to the HI that you use at the lower cost of the LI models. Personally I say that at a lower points cost, you get both the benefits of the 5-man HI fireteam and the drawbacks of the 5-man LI fireteam - those bonuses on the Crane(s) get really easy to strip away from the fireteam whose cost and composition mandates you to move closer to your opponent. That said, I've strongly considered Shang-Ji as a Zhanshi hacker-protector. One Zhanshi hacker is puny. 4 AROing you... not so much.
I've found the Zhanying to be a liability as well because he dies to the things Wu Ming shrug off. Though it was one of the first that could be a hacker with a link team with Tinbot. Though based on what @Mahtamori said I thought this could be fun in the right mission and against certain armies. 5 ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) SHÀNG JÍ (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower + TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0.5 | 43) HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26) 2 SWC | 126 Points Open in Infinity Army
I think LI link with HI pointman is very potent , and I prefer it over a full link or HI who are mostly redundant . My feeling on the Shangji is that I would have liked them to be what Tai Sheng ended up as. She is essentially what I would have wanted a Shang Ji to be. A slightly upgraded Senior ranking Zu Yong.
That may be the only place they're more viable than a Zuyong (since you can't even take a Zuyong in that role!). But why would you put a Zanshi link in the Invincible Army?
I think Zhanshi have their place just like Celestial in ISS, or Order Sergeants in MO. Not just for orders either. They are there to support the other troops. They may not be the main drivers but they get the ammo to those that do!
Hac Tao backed up by Zanshi core that can provide AROs, then refill to budget core attack link off a Haidao Red Fury. There are viable builds for it IMO.
You almost must have them if you want to use Hac Tao or Guijia (it being good or bad is not the point). Try making an effective list without them!
IA Zhanshi Core ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37) ZHANSHI Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) ZHANSHI Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) SHÀNG JÍ (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower + TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0.5 | 43) TAI SHENG (Chain of Command) Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenades / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 49) HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26) HAC TAO (Executive Order) HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 69) MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 4.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Probably my favorite list featuring a zhanshi core ATM.
I honestly think that list just gets alot stronger and more well rounded if you trim the junk like the Shang Ji. IA Zhanshi Core ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37) ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) ZHANSHI Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34) TAI SHENG Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenades / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 45) HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26) Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) HAC TAO (Executive Order) HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 69) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) GROUP 2 2 1 MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) 4 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
Your list is better if you play second because of the disposable AROs and the more efficient healing in case you have casualties, mine gives me 2 more orders to rambo with the hac-tao if i get first turn and fairy dust if needed. I can't say for sure which one is the best, but I could totally see myself going to a tournament with those 2 lists and decides which one i'm gonna play according to the army i'm facing or how the board looks like. Also i wouldn't play executive order Hac Tao without CoC on Tai Sheng, but that's probably because i play him as an S2 TAG: rambo first, then make it a resilient order sink. You killed him? congratulations, it probably took most of your turn and I lost only 1 order, now brace yourself for the second wave. Back on topic. I don't see myself playing shang-jì all the time, and certainly not a core, but they do show up in my lists once in a while. Very often i end up with my 10 dudes and 10ish points left, so the choice is either to give up on LI and just throw a chayi and warcor in the second group (like you did @Triumph ), or replace one of my zuyong with a Shang-jì (usually haris or paramedic). That's pretty much what happened with the list i posted previously.
I'm currently trying to figure out a list for Deadly Dance, and the Zhanshi link serves really good as a defensive link to support your Haidao MSR/Son-Bae SML: Deadly Dance──────────────────────────────────────────────────10 GŪIJIĂ MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / AP CCW. (2 | 88) GŪIJIĂ PILOT Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. () HÚLÁNG (Fireteam: Duo) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 44) LIÚ XĪNG Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 32) DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29) HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37) SON-BAE Yaókòng Smart Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 18) ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army I really enjoy the Crane link when playing ISS as well, although it certainly looks better than this thanks to the smoke LGL and the CC capabilities of the Crane. Fielding a defensive Zhanshi Core and an offensive Haris (wildcards galore!) looks interesting as well. You can throw a Shang Ji Haris, Zuyong HMG TA and Haidao KHD there, shooting stuff with your B5 HMG, setting stuff on fire and pressing buttons as you go.
I have never felt building your list to only function optimally in half the games you play is a solid strategic decision.
I mean that's a safe bet given that no other unit from IA will get a box set release. I feel like they'll forget the tinbot though and do the 4th model as a hacker even though the tinbot would be a more played model than any Shang Ji profile.
I'm betting on Tinbot since YJ doesn't have one yet. Also they have a tendency to assume people will use the combi for a hacker. Like the Liu Xing hacker for plain BSG.
