OK, here's the situation: A Zero in marker state moves into CC with the rear arc of a Mowang who is in NWI. The Zero is revealed and does a surprise attack, but instead of using a weapon it goes for In Extremis Recovery. So, Is it legal to go for In Extremis Recovery against someone still kicking? We said yes, because it only says they have to be unconscious, not null; the same loophole that lets Avicenna and Machaon self-heal. Is that roll FTF? We said yes, since if the Zero succeeds the Mowang is dead. Can that roll be modified by Surprise attack? Sure, it's an attack. Plus, unlike Surprise Shot, Surprise Attack has nothing to say about what kind of rolls it modifies. Am I hallucinating or is this legit?
No, for the same damned reason that you can’t use Coup De Gras on an NWI model. An NWI model isn’t Unconscious as far as most of the scenarios where it matters.
Dudes in NWI are safe from coup de grace because their unconscious marker gets pulled and replaced with the NWI one. Coup de grace specifically calls out for the unconscious marker. In Extremis, OTOH, doesn't say anything. Seems to me like it goes in the same bucket as Goodnight.
No, Coup de Grace has the same requirements as In Extremis. The difference is that NWI is an unconscious state while Coup de Grace and In Extremis requires you to be in contact with a trooper in the Unconscious state. Same goes for Goodnight, Valour: No Wound Incapacitation is not the Unconscious state is is an unconscious state.
And Corvus Belli like to say they don't need to clarify their rules, because they’re already clear enough! I’d better have a word with friends in clinical practice: those capital letters are more critical than they thought!
Aren't you guys making it overcomplicated ? From the wiki : - This means that No Wound Incapacitation allows the trooper to ignore the effects of the Unconscious state, treating it like the Normal state instead. If you are NWI you are not unconscious ... that is how I would rule it. Unless I'm missing something.
Maestro : - Failing one BTS Roll causes the target to lose all points of his Wounds/STR Attribute and enter the Unconscious state, or equivalent, signified by an Unconscious Marker in base to base contact. => The way I read it is that Maestro can't kill a NWI model. Just get him into the NWI state. As soon as you put an uncounscious marker it transforms into NWI ... What are the argument the other way ? Goodnight : - The target must be an enemy with the G: Remote Presence Special Skill in the Unconscious state. => same here ... how do you target a NWI model ? He is not in the Unconscious state ... What are the argument the other way ?
From the Skill: EFFECTS Troopers with this Special Skill have a special form of Unconscious state called No Wound Incapacitation. From the State: Effects The Unconscious state of troopers using the Special Skill No Wound Incapacitation has the following special rules: ... No Wound Incapacitation alters the Unconscious state of the user, removing the Null Label. This means that No Wound Incapacitation allows the trooper to ignore the effects of the Unconscious state, treating it like the Normal state instead. As written, you can use Goodnight on a Dogged Karakuri or an NWI Su Jian because they are in the Unconscious state, but with extra rules. That said, I'm 99% certain that In Extremis is supposed to refer to a trooper with an Unconscious marker next to it, like Coup de Grâce does, so that it can't be used on troopers in Dogged or NWI states. @HellLois?
Yeah, I agree with that view of the intent 100%. I don't think it should be legal. For now, though, I'm satisfied just to have the story of my Zero stealing a NWI Mowang's kidneys to do a classified.
Failing one BTS Roll causes the target to lose all points of his Wounds/STR Attribute and enter the Unconscious state, or equivalent, signified by an Unconscious Marker in base to base contact. Maestro has the "or equivalent" clause to explicitly allow the troop to go to Dogged or NWI.
