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MO update

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Zsimbi, Nov 29, 2018.

  1. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Are you joking ?

    This list could easily upgrade both Magisters to DA CCW and additionally upgrage both Teutons to Santiago KHD.

    Or give you Santiago Spitfire if you prefer it over Breaker....
     
    Elessar and TaHu like this.
  2. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

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    I like this version of daBorder's list a bit better. Dropped the palbot, upgraded 2 magisters + Teuton.

    Military Orders
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]3
    KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Lieutenant (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 43)
    TEUTONIC KNIGHT Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 36)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 32)
    KNIGHT OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE (Chain of Command) Breaker Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 52)
    MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
    MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    TRAUMA-DOC (Father-Doctor) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23)
    TEUTONIC KNIGHT Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 37)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  3. Marduck

    Marduck Well-Known Member

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    Here is a list I have been playing lately. Could probably be improved.

    Military Orders
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]3
    KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38)
    KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Lieutenant (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 43)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39)
    ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33)
    SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)

    5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    And an alternative version to face list with ton of smoke or ODD (I have not tried this one yet) :

    Military Orders
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]2
    KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38)
    KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Lieutenant (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 43)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39)
    BROTHER KONSTANTINOS Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Assault Pistol, CCW. (0 | 29)
    ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    BLACK FRIAR (Albedo, Biometric Visor L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)

    3.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  4. herod1204

    herod1204 Knight of Santiago

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    My gut feeling for a list with loads of camo, is seraph, peacemaker, blackfriar and an order sergeant link, but don't quote me on that!

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
     
  5. Marduck

    Marduck Well-Known Member

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    Maybe. But i mentioned odd and smoke. I was thinking about steel phalanx and aleph wich are dominating our meta right now. I expect varuna to hit hard in our next tournaments also.

    I'm not much worried by camo. They have trouble fighting heavy infantry links most of the time. There are exceptions of course like scout with em mine.
     
  6. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    Ok, so I've been giving the whole update some thought.

    Overall, I'm not feeling too great about most of the build options I can see, but there are a couple of lists which I think I would like to try on the table:

    Military Orders
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 35)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Lieutenant MULTI Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 35)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 31)
    ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15)
    SPEC. SERGEANT Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    TRAUMA-DOC (Father-Doctor) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33)
    SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    This feels, lacking, despite being somewhat similar to the Hospitaller/Magister builds which I used to run. One thing which I do actually like is the Heavy Rocket Launcher and Assault Pistol option for the Fireteam.

    But at least it's going to offer a solid punch, along with decent support for mission completion?

    I'm super not a fan of how the Lt is going to be exposed 'though.

    Military Orders
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    FATHER-KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 49)
    ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Lieutenant MULTI Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 35)
    PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]2
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    SPEC. SERGEANT Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    TRAUMA-DOC (Father-Doctor) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Now this one is obviously defensively stronger.

    But I feel like the punch of the Haris just won't be enough for too many defensive positions, and there's not a lot of "go forward" otherwise.

    What do you guys think?
     
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  7. Titus

    Titus Varuna Beach Commando

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    I think with the first list I'd replace the SO TO sniper with a Sierra HMG. Specially because you already have in the list everything you need to support it (hacker and machinist), so you would be getting more value from those troops while also having some points to spare. I would use those 8 points to either change one Hospitalier with a Santiago KHD for extra protection for your Lt and core, or squeze another regular order in group 2. A second group with only 2 regulars + 2 irregulars seem too small to me. You can use Command Tokens to get more regulars, but I'd prefer to save them for the fireteam if needed and the machinist and doctor to do their job.

    With the second list I'm not sure I'd know how to play it. The OS core is defensive, and I don't think it would be too good if you use it to advance. I think the Haris is better with the OS rocket launcher than the Hospitalier Lt in it, I'm not sure if that's your plan, because getting your Lt up there with only a Haris seems too risky to me. But if you plan to leave your Lt behind, maybe you just want to change it for a Father Knight and put it in the core?

    Also I don't see the OS as very useful. He allows you to take the fugazi and pathfinder, but all of them together don't seem to be doing anything specially important here. Maybe you could change them for an OS TO FO and something else. But I'm not sure about any of this because it's not clear to me the intention of this list.
     
  8. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    I can dig them

    But why include the OS hacker? just for the remote buffs? you probably wont have orders to do that sort of thing anyway. IMO both lists can be made better by dropping the hacker and dropping the BSG knight in the first list and the LT hospitaller in the second list and replacing them with the KHD Santiago. He packs quite a punch and gives your list teeth against hackers! Since the second list is missing an LT, I would replace the Father knight missile launcher with the Spitfire LTnversion. You already have decent ARO in the HRL on the 5 man team – he will inevitably die and you can relink with the Father Knight spitfire and wreak havoc with that.

    I feel as though the TO MSR is kind of necessary. Its critical for taking out something like a TR bot or a TR bot like piece – which is something MO struggles with as a whole and only really has one answer. The Sierra dronbot is nice but ultimately wont do anything that the linked HRL or linked HMG can't.
     
  9. Marduck

    Marduck Well-Known Member

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    I love your first list. I will probably try it. But I would love the tofo in g1 and the trauma doc in g2.

    I'll would also try to get a khd and spitfire montesa in the link also. Maybe remove the machinist to do so.

    But you have a great base somehow similar to what I used to run before the update.
     
  10. TaHu

    TaHu Well-Known Member

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    What is the role of teuton? A close combatant. Unforunately, close combat is very rare in infinity, and other knights can manage it, although - worse. Even if you play on a very dense table linked shotgun burst will be less order intensive and can bring the same results.
    Point costs matter, you may take more different units and therefore orders OR the cost is higher however what you get for the difference is also big, such as nisse vs bagh mari, most people will take nisse.
    List with teutons and 3,5 swc, what a nice suicide... You also have 6 models for fireteam? Who do you plan to leave out? I suppose either teuton or magister lsg. He is just expensive backup in expensive army. I would better take Dart or to sergant. How do you even hope to get out of DZ?
    Fugazi is obvious choice Cheap order which allows you to upgrade one of your units. Or as you pointed out - tech bee + warcor/palbot who can work alongside Joan. In your case KotHS BR -> KotHS Spitfire, or as pointed by Eciu - take Santiago KHD.
    If "it is not your list" is true, why everybody asks advices about their list. Fusilier ava total spam wouldn`t do anything agaist tournament optimized tohaa list.
    Magisters with lsgs and missile launchers before were a better option IMO.
    If you want to run 2 combat groups I think that best option would be magisters+sergant(and maybe santiago) or a sergant fireteam. You don`t have any MSV, this will make it hard to play against camo spam.
    I think it is the biggest problem in MO now.
     
  11. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    The big boy list
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]3
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 32)
    KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Lieutenant (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 43)
    KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39)
    ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    DART Submachine Gun, Viral Tactical Bow, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 34)
    PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)

    5.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I played this list today in Transmission matrix against Haqq. It went pretty well, the first half of the game I couldn't make a roll to save my life. losing the HMG and doctor in one boarding shotgun blast. Second half I bounced back though. It's really nice having most of your scoring units have 2 wounds. Dart is really tough to remove, surviving a sneak attack by Hussam Yasbir and multiple Mutt chain rifles.
     
  12. lord farfhocel

    lord farfhocel Well-Known Member

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    Salve Frater Milites...

    As always full disclosure:
    With infinity since N1 (yu jing), with MO since they launched in HSN2...

    Preferred style: (n2-early n3)
    2to sgt, os defensive link (very rarely os spit, connie, 3sgt) + bigboys

    Hosp + magisters link plus connie to os...

    Tldr;

    I went over to NCA and vanila a couple of years ago I anticipated this response like news of an old flame breaking up with Chad. Couple of thoughts:

    1 Mistakes: trauma and machinist... cant we get a similar costed sectoral version with religious and wip3?
    Teutons... everything said before... But... For Pete's sake why not make them asshole berserkers... 6-2 mov , stealth and ECLIPSE GRENADES and EXP ccw. Not some fancy mono, that is for other dudes... huge assplodding slabs of unobtanium (madafaquium ?) ... and impetuous.... maybe even very.?. Why not give every order a unique role in MO. Eclipse forces different playstyle than smoke and prevents Pano fro becoming another MSV2 Smoke faction...

    2 misunderstood: tag Lt is a good idea for a thematic os armour list... pls do... please cb...

    3 general notes... i use ml to escape dz... threatening enemies with dodge to safety or retaliation choice...
    Also magisters had 1-2 ml with me anyway...
    BF is for me a go to when facing possible impersonators...
    We could do with some sort of inquisitor style unit with sensor...

    Lastly just a note of confusion (please do not explode)
    Book and pdf makes no distinction between os and spec os, saying all can be linked (g sync excluded)
    Only army makes the spec ops prohibition... who to listen? If this is a mistake in print it is a pretty consistent one.
     
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  13. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Black Friars are the Inquisition, with both MSV and BMV access
    As ever the wiki is the most up to date and authorative source for anything other than profiles, the Spec Sergeant restriction has been double checked with Gutier to still be in effect:
    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/List_of_Fireteams#Military_Orders
    Screenshot_20190105-151827.png
     
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  14. lord farfhocel

    lord farfhocel Well-Known Member

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    @colbrook thanks... for OS

    Also... BF.. so what can't we have...Red friar... friar with Sensor

    Yellow friar with counterintelligence

    Blue friar with advanced command

    Pink friar with strategos

    Red friar with lieutenant lv2

    AND TOGETHER THEY WILL FORM A MEGAFRIAR
    "electric guitar theme... gogogogo power friars"
     
  15. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Because INYLIY has always been about how your list cannot win the game for you, you need to know how to use it.
     
  16. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    This is as opposed to games like 40k where certain list can auto-win you games vs certain faction that just can't handle it.
     
    #436 Death, Jan 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
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  17. TaHu

    TaHu Well-Known Member

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    Sure, however if we take 2 players with same skill level, one with better optimized list will have higher chances of winning.
    Despite all my comments, I think the balance is pretty good and it is not 40k where if you pick x and y units than you autowin. But that doesn't mean that it shouldn't strive for better.
    Certain units or their loadouts are more popular then other. You can pick worse ones, play on harder difficulty and still win.
     
  18. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Define "optimized list" in Infinity language, please. Because optimization is one of the hardest thing to do in Infinity. It depends on the table and terrain, on the mission and on the list of your opponent. In a tournament you only have two lists to deal with all of this. So to me, there isn't straight optimized troops. Abedo BF is one of our best MSV troop available and though, I consider to take Koni too because BF sucks in difficult terrains.
    One of the strength of Teuton you all seem to forget is their Jungle Terrain. Something way much more common than the Zero-G one. And the Very Difficult Terrain rule exists. For having played on such terrain without the good terrain skill, I can say you that it ruins any assault one handed if you don't have the good skill.
    Plus, they are quite ok for ARO duty at long range thanks to their PzF.
    And really, when you look on the Teuton profile only (putting fluff aside), do you really think that CC is their goal? Not to me. I thing they are cheap to be the unit you can use to go straight to the throat of your ennemy by using holes in his defensive net to die in your opponent DZ. The fact they have Berserk is the most showing thing. You won't waste time by using 4 orders to get rid of a Warband or ODD guy. Assault or Berserk, take the hit and pass to the next target. Used well, they can be pretty fast. No fancy trick, just one of the most straight forward HI we can have in PanO that can use cover and the cheapest of them.
     
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  19. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    And some matchups in older versions of WarmaHordes (don't know if they fixed that issue in Mk3 or not).


    I dunno, I think the two of us would come up with different 'optimized lists'.

    There have always been some units I totally struggle to use decently, and yet other people consider them auto-includes.
     
  20. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    I think theres a lot more variable factors in infinity than other games like 40k or warmahordes, thats why local meta is much more prevalent than universal truth in this game. Terrain density, match-ups, and mission choice all deeply impact how we play.
     
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