We play both 20x20 (why did i wrote D20 btw ?) and ITS9, that depends on the mood. Both have interesting missions, and since we like playing with big toys (TAGs are a frequent view - Jotum doing a civil casevac is quite a sight ^^), both are very viables for this - that wasn't always the case with older versions of ITS.
Well, never seen Casevac used unless once by me in a very specific situation. I use Minesweeper against AI beacons but I play Mulebots very rarely and the most part of the time it is the EVO one. Well, Irmandinhos are freaking awful with Scavenger. Lost an Aquila one time and my opponent was really hesitating before finally taking the MULTI Rifle. I have to admit that having no problem to toss Smoke through Smoke is a powerful combo too. Never ECM though because the only time I used or suffer guided ammos, the target wasn't a TAG. But I tend to say that the presence of ECM in TAGs is enough to your opponent to use other methods than fire randomly on a TAG that you already had difficulties to put in Targeted state.
Things I never use: Detonate Kuang Shi - I'm never in a situation were the Kuang Shi can't just drop dead and explode or go Dogged. I think I would use the skill more if I wasn't forced to kill them all, which is a flawed system. Why can't you send Bob 1 to explode in a crowd and proceed with Bob 2, Bob 3 and Bob 4? Why do I need to dispose of all Bobs at once? Markmanship Level X - Even though I had like 2 missions a couple of months ago, were Lunah used it through a Saturation Zone, I've simply never seen the damn skill used. Ever. Honestly, I've had multiple instance when talking to people, were they forget that the skill even exists. Deactivator - What's the point? If it's a Koala, why not just shoot it with the combi-rifle? The same goes with repeaters. Can you even target D-charges? I don't see the purpose of this skill/equipment. Poison - I've been #MeeToo'd several times by Tarik and have never been in CC with him, or anything I can remember, were Poison was ever relevant. Pheroware Tactics - I don't even know what this is. Heavyweight - Never seen it and it's now even less relevant now that we don't have objective rooms anymore. Mechanical Transmutation - Just kidding, I love my kittycats.
None of the other Bobs has ever complained about being exploded along with the rest of their group. Deactivator is much better odds of deactivating things like Koalas for the best engineers compared to the rifle. 90% success rate for clockmakers in the plus 3 range. 85% for the combi rifle.
1. I don't shoot Koalas at that close range 2. Your rebutal is poor because even with your cherrypicked, high-end-ultra-tier, WIP15 example, your odds only improved by 5%. Which doesn't hold true with your claim of Deactivator being "much better odds"
It's Mines where the Deactivator really kicks in, because it ignores the Camo MOD, leaving a Clockmaker on 90% with Deactivator and around 75% with Combi.
Not to forget it also ignores cover and ARM rolls. Ever had a MadTrap face-tank a full burst of Multi-HMG fired by a TAG? I have. Hero of the day. (Well, of the second, it died next order) For factions that cheat by having access to superior Engineers capable of linking (I'm not bitter, you are bitter), it's also a BS Attack sub-type so you get +1 burst and +3 WIP from Link team bonuses. A Kaplan in QK could conceivably have 100% chance of removing two mines using one short skill, provided the camo state has been removed. The only thing more cost-effective would be triggering the mines with something of little value; CrazyKoala, MadTrap or a political dissident! @Zewrath : Minesweeper and Deactivator has +3 at 8" to 16", while the +6 sounds like gravy, you don't really need to get such a high bonus to use them. I do still think that these two skills will keep being uncommonly used, but that's much like Scavenger in that it's more about that Engineers are seldom Combat Engineers and typically don't get to get close as well as deployable equipment still being somewhat rare (or possible to deploy where LOF can't be drawn to them)
Deactivator requires the target to not be on Marker state (explicitely stated)... so it's better to shoot at it with the combi from more than 22cm (the mine's template range). If it were able to ignore the Camo state, or a sucessful activation would "turn off" all mines on the engineers ZoC, that would be another matter entirely. And a mine not in camo state has no camo MOD, so... What I never use: MarksmanshipX (seriously, Burst is almost always better), Free Agent (the models I have with it never need to switch groups), Minesweeper (I'm on the receiving end of that with my Netrods and Imetrons, however XD), and several duplicated hacking programs (depends on the hacking device), but I cannot remember a single instance when I used Controlled Jump.
I like using AD4 (and i have PH13 troops, so 80% chances of success for something that will utterly break the opponent's plan is really good) so i've used controlled jump before. Well in fact i rarely used controlled jump since i often field an evo, and that cute thing can do the same without expending an order, but now that we have the danava, i tend to use it a bit more. I agree, hacking programs are numerous and often redoundant. 4 programs doing IMM on target, excluding UPGRADE. Even worse for damage programs. It would be better to have one program for a task, and giving mods to the hacking device (ex KHD: +1B on active vs hackers - AHD: +1B vs rem/tag/hi ...). Or having just one "basic" program like brain blast, and one upgraded program like red rum. Lockpicker is outdated now that there is no locked objective room anymore (and even then i never saw it used, lockpicking with ML or sniper was so easier and didnt "unlock" it for your opponent) U-turn is useless now that guided is useless. Breakwater requires to be the target of an attack - and said target may have a better answer like sucker punch, red rum or maestro who can prevent a second attempt by disabling the attacker. all shield-3, since who plays with defensive/white hacking device ? And even then, they requires the hacker to be the target, he can't protect his teammates, only him.
I will accept that the Deactivator has some uses (since IJW Wartrader mentioned Mines and you mentioning it, I just realised that Deactivator has the BS Attack label, so Clockmakers can do disover + BS Attack on mines pretty reliably), I don't mean to come off as rude but a couple of points here: 1. The 85% chance that is being mentioned here does take armour rolls into account. Assuming the generic BS14 TAG shot your Madtrap out of cover, he would have 99.68% to kill it and 95.12% if the Madtrap was in cover. It's literally more reliable to hope that a Clockmaker rolls a 19 or 20. Given the context of how you presented your example though, I am fully aware that you know this as well and aren't arguing that such examples are common. 2. I know the +6 range exists, but it might as well not exist in my eyes. As far as I am aware, neither of the skills you mention actually prevent the equipment from exploding, so getting within the +6 range band is just a waste in my eyes. Correct me if I'm wrong on this. I do think it you're right about the reasons for the skill not being used (that much) though. From my experience, I'm either able to spot a Perimeter/Deployable weapon from a long distance or it's outside LoF and I have to get within the trigger area to see them. PS. Holo Echos are even less of value and you don't even have to sacrifice your poor Perimeter weapons! ;(
Yeah. In my 20-order list I ran this weekend I didn't have room for any Kanren, however, so MadTrap was the least costly loss I could take in order to trigger mines. It's all about opportunity; Scavenger is not bad, it's low opportunity since few models have it. Deactivator is not bad, it's low opportunity since few models that have it will likely be close enough. Mine-sweeping with Perimeter/Echoes is, on the other hand, high opportunity since they tend to be further up the table and more common than either of the previous two. As a side-note I have found Boost to be an unreliable tool, mostly since unlike mines I can't provoke Boost to happen and it's easy for my opponent to use a disposable model to clear one or both Perimeter weapons. So a new candidate for the list; Boost That Actually Targets Something Valuable.
ECM comes up very rarely. If your opponent has the capability to fire guided missiles, they probably won't bother if you have ECM. The White Hacking Device is pretty cool and barely exists. Shame, it's Cyber-Alert systems are badass.
On Lockpick and other table-specific things. I know doors, difficult terrain and other things that make situational skills useful aren't generated by official scenarios anymore, but I think it doesn't mean they should not exist.
That's still a reason why these skills are rarely used, if ever. Especially when antimaterials could do it as well.
When it comes to terrain rules it's either because your meta doesn't have the resources to use terrain effects or because players refuse/are too lazy to. I sympathise a little bit - there's enough to learn without factoring the board itself, but it does make the game more interesting.
All I know is that I am happy Marauders have Jungle Terrain skills. Besides buildings the most common type of terrain seen around here is forest/jungle!
