So I'm wondering what tactics you guys use to deal with Haqq, and in particular two units: Mutts and Fidays. Mutts seem almost custom designed to cause problems for expensive model armies like PanO, particularly MO, or NCA. At 5 points vs 8 pts for our cheapest model it seems that the Mutt is going to trade up against almost any model we field. About the only option is to have a decent ARO model, but even that is not a guarantee with enough terrain on the table. The Fiday makes it very difficult to take an expensive troops, since the Fiday is guaranteed to get two orders unmolested, which is often enough to erase one trooper. At that usually the Fiday is killed in turn, and at 30 points it's more challenging to trade up, but it's not difficult vs PanO.
This can be kept to one order... Fiday reveals, gets one CC or BS attack, and gets deleted. This can be achieved through proper deployment. If you can keep the Fiday to that one interaction, you can generally heal back up with a Doc and keep going. With Impersonators, mutual support is key. Let your models see one another without lining up in obvious shotgun trajectories, and use your anti-Impersonator tools (Minelayer, Jammer, MSV2 vs Smoke, 6th Sense L2, link bonuses) to deny area and minimize the damage you suffer. Camo units and link teams are brilliant for this... They have very strong defensive benefits that they can project vs the mediocre stats of Impersonators, so maximize those stats whenever possible. The worst thing you can do is leave valuable models (or weak cheerleaders) undefended. It helps to keep a strong defender in reserve to help shore up an area where you're weak. Helot, Zulu Cobra jammer, any TO ARO, etc all help here. As for Mutts... Use mines and AROs to make them work to get close in the midfield, then use your stealth and marker state to arrange strong active turn engagements to take them down. When you commit to engaging Mutts in the midfield, make sure it's a turn where you can hunt Mutts thoroughly and not leave units vulnerable to counter attack.The big danger is parking your strong units in the midfield where they can get E/Med, or trying to walk units without Stealth through Jammers. Don't play their game.
I play in a local meta that has quite a bit of Haqq. We definitely have the tools needed to deal with these models, but a lot of it comes down to your strategic deployment and movement. Mutts: Active Turn: The best way to deal with them is to get a long angle on them with a high burst weapon. A TAG is quick enough to move up the board to get diagonal line of sight to Mutts that might be hiding around corners. TAGs also have the high burst and BS you need to beat their smoke dodge. Reactive Turn: The key here is to set up models that bait out Mutts. A well placed infiltrator or forward deployed model can lure out the Mutts into line of fire of your long range ARO pieces. Locusts, for example are pretty great for this, because they don't have a marker state. If you are going second at the start of the game, you could hold your infiltrator back as your reserve model. Once you see the deployment of all the Mutts, you can then place your model in a way to bait as many as possible. Fidays: Active Turn: If you get first turn, you can focus on discovering the Fiday. Link teams are great, for their +3 WIP, but you can also get a lot done with just an 8 point Fugazi. An obvious choice would be the Black Friar, with his Biometric Visor. Now, the BF can join an Order Sergeant link team, increasing his chances of discovering! Just make sure you don't accidentally move your link in a way that would give the Fiday a template attack of opportunity. Make sure only one member is at risk at a time. Reactive Turn: This is a little more complicated, but again it comes down to careful deployment. Avoid standing in a line anywhere, and make sure you have models watching each other's back. For your reserve model, you could potentially counter deploy with your Black Friar, hoping to get a lucky discover attempt. Other than that, there's really not much you can do. The key is deploying in a way that the Fiday can't get more than one kill without exposing himself to other AROs.
I think NCA is good. You have cheap Fugazi to slow a bit Mutts, and Auxilia/CSUs are cheap yet disposable Muts killers. Also every Mutt in open field should be dead due to Swiss to face. As with Fidays, accept that in 90% of time he will kill your model, just prevent him from killing more, having easy time with template on your guys etc. Black friar is goog help as he can overwatch your center piece and almost asxure fiday will die if he goes against it (biovisor negates surprise attack vs Black Friar and MSV2 negates Fiday smoke). MO is bit tricker. Most of yojr guys will have almost equal skill in CC (if SS2), so Fiday might not be that likely to get in CC with you. Guard against templates and you should be good. Regardinf mutts its much more problematic. Seraph might get some nice angles outside Mutts 11.5" . Would say that OS with Auxbots might be similar solution. Actually now linkabke Black Friar MR can be nice ARO killer. BS13 with link bonuses is really good against Muts and Kums, prevenying (at least) firdt turn rush.
Sorry, let me be a bit clearer here. Since Impersonation has two levels, against human armies models with the impersonator is guaranteed to be able to act for two turns unmolested before being revealing. This assumes that the op force passes all their rolls. In practice the Impersonator is likely only going to be revealed when the owner wishes it to happen. Even link teams are ~50/50 against Imp-1. Black Friar might be the best at this, with 65% chance alone, or 80% chance in a link team. Ex: Turn 1: Active Player: I move the Impersonator marker 4" Reactive Player: I attempt to discover A: I move 4" Results: Impersonator now Impersonator-2 Turn 2: A: I move Impersonator marker 4" R: Discover A: I attack Results: Impersonator revealed, makes surprise attack against target. Note, the Impersonator has a 12" threat range for melee attacks, and potentially can shoot most places in the enemy DZ, even without rolling to deploy there.
I usually play vanilla, so I learned to have at least two MSV troops to watch each other's backs (and the DZ) against Fiday... Usually a Nisse and Black Friar. Black Friar is pretty much custom made against Impersonation, but I wouldn't link him in MO. Better for him to act as bait alone. Holy Sepulchre is hilarious in that role, though again works better in vanilla when they expect a Fusilier Lt and get a sword in the face instead. But even with Holoechoes out your DZ is more saturated than a Fiday may be comfortable with. As for Ghazi, I have no idea. The little shots seem to survive everything thrown at them.
Hello, I play Aco, sometimes Neoterra, others vainilla Pano, and too play with hassasins. Against Fiday, or as general tactict against infiltrators, impersonators or Airbone Deployement, try to put at least one model taking care of others. You need to have LoF between, at least, two of your models every time. In this way, the Fiday has to use smoke, and this are less orders to attack or morde chances to ous to put a bullet in him. You can use REMs with S1 in order to protect expensive troops if you deploy them in one corner and them puts the REM in front of him in BtB contact. The fiday isn't really good shooting. Auxilias are a really good tools figthing this guys. Against Muttas things are differents, you could make use of Bolts, they are veterans, and can't suffer isolated status. You have some profiles with minelayers and several with MSVL2 or 3. Use always a Machinist. Auxilias are too a good tool against muttas. The REM with flamethrower is really really expendable.
Bolts are a poor solution to Mutts, with the exception of the Drop Bears profile. Outside of that V:Dogged + Chain Rifle makes it possible for the Mutt to be guaranteed to move 12", then chain rifle, at which point you likely lose a 20-30 pt model in exchange for a 5 pt model. The Drop Bears profile is nice because it allows the Bolt to be outside of Chain Rifle range, and apply a guaranteed hit with shock ammo.
Don't the bolts basically ignore the jammers from the mutts due to veteran? If I was playing neoterra I wouldn't have any problem sending some bolts after them. In vanilla I dont think I'd take bolts just to deal with mutts because of better options. Yeah mutts suck basically being 5 point spheres of don't come near me lol.
They don't ignore the Chain Rifle though, and any Haqq player will gladly trade a 5 point Mutt for a 20+ point Bolt ,and more than likely 2-3 given the size of the template. Auxilia and Peacemakers for the Auxbot's HFT in addition to the controller's BS attack from outside of template range is probably your best bet.
Yes, it's true they cannot be isolated, but they can very easily be shot multiple times with a chain rifle. Add in the 12" move + 10" Chain rifle threat range, and in the active turn you're going to be losing your Bolts, and you're not guaranteed to trade a single Bolt for a Mutt, due to V:Dogged. In your active turn you might be able to shoot them from range, but most of the Bolt's profiles are setup for CQB, making shots outside of 16" move into negative range bands. Also if you're going to shoot them from outside of 10" where you can't be isolated you're probably just as well off using a Fusilier or something. The Fusie is slightly better since it has a 4-4 MOV making it easier to get a flanking side shot. So that leaves maybe sneaking by the Mutt, or dropping a mine around the corner with the Drop Bears profile.
I've seen a ghazi survive a missile launcher. Bounced right of his chest. Rolled 18 18 and a 20. They would open their mouth and swallow the flames and ask for seconds!
Remember also that Jammer is a Comm equipment. Each time a Mutt wants to jam your drones in his active turn, try to Black out him. Getting rid of the Jammer let your guys lay mines easily. In NCA, Bolts are really good, while not popular, to deal with them. Drop Bears and Vet L1 is a good way to wreck them. The Black Friar is also good for this. Seraph too. You can sacrifice your Auxbot to burn a Mutt safely and get double discover against Fiday. And I find toting a Drop Bear when the Mutt trigger a shooting ARO at long range much more interesting than just shoot. This is not a FtF and the Mutt suddenly might not want to risk himself to a 25% chance to getting rid of the Bolt while he is at 65% chance to straight die.
Is it? It's listed as a comms attack, but I see no tag indicating it's comms equipment, nor is it listed as a target for the blackout program. Contrast this with sniffer or repeater, both of which are listed in the blackout program, and have the comms equipment tag.
What do you mean "double discover"? No matter how many successes you get, the state only changes once, from Imp-1->Imp-2 and Imp-2->Discovered. You can't take two successes and go Imp-1->Discovered.
As retarded as it sounds, the unit with literal Comms Equipment making a Comms Attack does NOT have the Comms Equipment trait. Seriously CB needs to rectify this, it’s absurd beyond belief and goes totally against any logic.
Well, I have to admit that was something an Haqq player said to me. I didn't check this as I assumed that he knew much more than me the weaknesses of his army. Seeems that he doesn't. No, you still have to use to orders to discover completely a Impersonated trooper in Imp1 state but you have to rolls for any G: Synch trooper (even three with Scylla and Drakios). It, at least, gives you stability in the success of the Discover rolls. Except for my mistake about the Jammer trait, all I've said as been tested on the battlefield and I'm confident about what I say. Drop Bears are really effective against WB except dogfaces. Total Immunity kills all the fun, really.
FWIW, I didn't know any better until I looked it up. Vet L1 doesn't seem particularly relevant. If you're close enough for it to matter, you're likely going to be getting one or more chain rifle shots in the next active turn, if not sooner. Drop bears seem a bit tricky as well, since they're an under 8" range band. This means you're likely going to move up, fire a few off, then pull back. If you don't the Mutt can just run through the mine, and chainrifle your Bolt for fun and profit. (4" Move + 10"+ Chain rifle)
