So I've decided to finally try out new MO (our community is now deliving deep into Aristeia so it's harder to get Infinity games). I got a game against our top player and on mission which I think is really hard for LI sectorials, and new MO is such a one. So lets us start with my list: Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 1 FATHER-KNIGHT Lieutenant (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 45) BROTHER KONSTANTINOS Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Assault Pistol, CCW. (0 | 29) ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) BLACK FRIAR (Albedo, Biometric Visor L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28) ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) KNIGHT OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE (Chain of Command) Breaker Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 52) KNIGHT OF MONTESA Paramedic (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun, Chain-colt / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 39) DART Submachine Gun, Viral Tactical Bow, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 34) MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25) 3.5 SWC | 297 Points Open in Infinity Army Few notes: 1) It's damn hard to hit 300 pts if you decide to go with OS link and LI. I've to take Konstantinos as I've ~15 pts left and no space to add another body. It was unfortunetaly not enough to get another KotHS with FD2. 2) FK still sucks, even with FO LT profile. Santiago LT is much better due to being Specialist having a good gun (Spitfire), 360 visor, Nanopulser, E/M grenades etc. ARM (and BTS) is still heavily overpriced (also Frenzy is really needed in new MO). 3) I've decided against using TOFOOS. Knowing I will be playing against TAK I was sure to meet a K9 sensor on table, and having LI list I knew I had not enough orders to actually try to discover and kill him if my opponent decides to hide him even a bit. On the other hand MOV6-6 + Sensor means he can discover most of table in single sweep and my TOFOOS will then be eaten by werewolves or shoot by some nasty kazaks. 4) It's a first list ever when I have 2 MSV2 (actually 3 MSVs in total). MSV are still overpriced. 5) I could fit Joan probably but then I would be losing Specialist LT and I need every order to be able to be used to capture antennas. My opponents list: Tartary Army Corps ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 1 DOZER (Traktor Mul Control Device) Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) TRAKTOR MUL (Minesweeper) Electric Pulse. (0 | 5) TRAKTOR MUL (Minesweeper) Electric Pulse. (0 | 5) STRELOK K-9 Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines + 1 K-9 Antipode / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) K-9 ANTIPODE Trench-hammer, AP CC Weapon. (8) STRELOK (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) FRONTOVIK (Fireteam: Haris) T2 Rifle / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24) VETERAN KAZAK AP HMG / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 47) VETERAN KAZAK (Forward Observer) AP Rifle, Light Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 38) LINE KAZAK (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8) GROUP 2 6 1 1 LINE KAZAK Lieutenant Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9) LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9) LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9) LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9) FRONTOVIK Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 23) SPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) HMG / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 38) IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Quite standard TAK list. It should have SpecOp but I've forgot about building mine so my opponent just downgraded his SpecOP to line kazak. My opponent won the initiative (with a crit) and decided to make me deploy first. Knowing that I little of an ARO I've decided to go first and try to capture and kill as much of enemy as I can. Notes from deployment: 1) My Montesa was unfortunately counter-deployed by Line Kazak link with Frontovick HRL, thus he could not use his Impetues Order to capture first antenna ;/ Frontovick HRL could see a long diagonal line across whole table, we messed up a bit the buildings (it was not easy to spot this LoF initially). 2) Well MO has really open list in such list, so every AD will hurt. Van Zant will eat all people left in DZ and heavily reduce MO orders. Only hope is to advance with everything in mid-field but that's also not exactly safe spot. Attacking MO from their own DZ is viable strategy and should be quite strong. MO turn 1: I've decided to push hard with my KotHS. I've moved freely on my right flank and capture first 2 right antennas. Then I've hugged a building and shoot down Frontovick within 16". Then I've advanced towards the last antenna of the right flank and captured it. On the stairs behind the building (which I've hugged to shoot Frontovick HRL) were 2 camo markers. It was obvious it's Strelok FO + Ambush. Due to my movement I've decided to try to discover closer marker and in turned out to be Ambush camo. Then I've advanced a little bit more towards the nearby fence and shoot down Line Kazak who was part of the link, and later Irmandinho who was just behind him. with my last 2 orders I've decided to bakc up to a corner between a fence and Icestorm building. Seeing rather no enemy specialist on my right flank Ive decided to discover Strelok specialist and luckily I also gunned him down. TAK turn 1: TAK started with advance of their remains of Line Kazak link. Having 4 orders to spend he advanced and stared and my now 3 holoechos. I've decided not to ARO and luckily for me he picked up a wrong holo to shoot with all his burst. On next order it was only 50/50 and him having B4 I've decided to ARO. KotHS ate a crit but luckily critted back. Then on last order of small combat group Line Kazak managed not to gun down KotHS just wound him(who was without cover all the time). Then a Vet Kazak Haris with Frontovick decided to leave the objective room they were camping and deal with wounded KotHS. They advanced where once Line Kazak and Irmandinho were and gunned down KotHS with B5 Assault Pistol (because TAK can have nice T2 Rifles and Assault Pistols which doesn't overlap with firing ranges - Konstantinos could learn from them ^^). Turn ended with Vet Kazak AP HMG getting on top of Icestorm building and trying to shoot down Montesa across the table (without success). Then a K-9 with Strelok decided to deal with Dart. Antipode superjumped next to building Dart was on, used sensor and on next order superjumped into CC and straight killed Dart (my mistake of not having anyone to watch her back). MO turn 2: With KotHS dead it was a time for a link to advance. Luckily Frontovick HRL died so Montesa could start moving. Unfortunetaly previous shots from Vet Kazak AP HMG forced him to duck into total cover making preventing me from scoring first leftmose antenna with a single impetues move. Mixed OS link advanced, scored middle-south antenna and killed single Line Kazak in long range (one who shot KotHS). Then Black Friar advanced on a balcony of buildnig where Dart used to be and gunned down the Strelok (one with K9). Link advanced a bit further and FK used his Lt order to break link and score middle antenna (which costed CT to reform the link). Black Friar then advanced on balcony and tried to shoot down Vet Kazak AP HMG. Unfortunetaly I've just inflicted single wound to him, and he dropped prone. At the end Black Friar tried to deploy 2 Drop bears, one to the left of middle-middle antenna and one to the betwen middle-middle and middle-north. Unfortunetaly only a left one succeded. With 2nd to last order BF tried to shoot on long range the 2nd Irmandinho (who was atm. only enemy specialist on my left flank), unfortunetaly enemy Irmandihno made ARM rolls. Within this order I've reshufled link to take some defensive positions with FK, HRL OS, and Konstantinos. With last order my Montesa advanced and scored 2nd antenna on the left flank (so I had 7 antennas in total!). I had my link overwatching most of middle table, especially BF had nice vantage possition with his MR. I've also used CT to move link leader from exposed BF to a hidden OS Paramedic (who stood behind HRL OS). TAK turn 2: TAK decided to activate his Specnaz, who was on deep left TAK flank. He advanced and started with gunning down poor Konstantinos across table (he was around middle-middle antenna). Then he tried to shoot OS HRL and extremaly lucky for me ate a crit from it and went unconcious. TAK then advanced with Haris. Vet Kazak AP Rifle had to circle around the body of KotHS and my BF could shoot him without cover infliclint a wound (due to crit). Then after some fire exchange (and his and my crits) got gunned down by Vet Kazak AP Rifle (luckily for me he needed 2 more orders to do so). With BF dead, AP HMG Vet Kazak stood up and gunned down exposed Montesa, and then tried to gun down both my HRL OS (one linked in middle of table and one unlinked deep in my DZ, on small building in middle). Linked HRL went down unconcious but unlinked HRL rolled double 18s on ARM and ducked prone. At the end TAK moved whole harris a bit forward and entered Suppressive Fire with Frontovick and both Vet Kazaks (who had 1 wound each). MO turn 3: With 4 orders left and being hard locked down by Vet Kazaks SF I've found out that FK still sucks with his poor combi. Even overpriced BS14 is bad against SF Vet Kazak as I was shooting at 8s and enemy was shooting at 10s. Without much to do I stood up with my back OS HRL, tried to heal unconcious HRL (failed) and then entered SF with FK LT and Paramedic OS. TAK turn 3: After a little of thinking my opponent realized that his Vet Kazak AP Rifle FO has rather clean reign over my right flank. I've made a slight mistake with my Father Knight who was prone behind middle-middle objective and could only see left side of table. I've missed that Vet Kazak AP Rifle is specialist (I thought there was only Line Kazak FO initially in objective room). AP HMG then stood up, killed my standing HRL OS, allowing Vet Kazak to capture all objectives on my right flank without any opposition. I've ended my last turn with 7 antennas to 0 of my enemy. Vet Kazak captured the 3 and single Irmandinho on my left flank captured another 2 (middle-north and left-north). Game ended with something like 9-0 or 10-0 for TAK. Remarks and notes: 1) Non-Frenzy knights kinda sucks. MO has no orders to make erros, or "stall" somewhere. With casualties it is essential to actually get Frenzy so at least you have some stability in orders, otherwise 2nd and 3rd turn of MO might be really order starved. 2) FK still sucks. Only profile which might get some use is ML. FO or Spitfire it will be better to take Santiago. Mayby it is worth to take FK in some missions like Headhunting (tanky Lt) but then why not to take Joan ? I don't think now MO will be SWC starved so actually super cheap Santiago LT will be better (and points chepear) option than either FK FO or FK Spitfire (while having advantages of both ^^). 3) KotHS Breaker combi was fun to use in terms of "finnally I had a gun which is good against Ariadna". All this high-tech for a single profile ^^ (while TAK has T2 which just kills knights). 4) BS is highly overcosted when your gunfighter (KotHS) hits Frontovicks (in KotHS good and Frontovicks neutral range) on 11 while Frontovicks hits on 12s. This mimetism on all attack pieces is really strong ^^ 5) MO will tolerate no mistakes and no bad rolls. This game was actually lucky for me dice-wise. I ate no crits during my active turn, not failed a single objective roll (due to EVO I rolled double 16s or 17s). And I inflicted 3 crits during my opponent active (killed Specnaz with HRL, KotHS countercritted Line Kazak and BF inflicted single wound on Vet Kazak AP Rifle FO). 6) When you compare Konstantinos to Frontovicks you can only cry ;( 7) Black Friar is actually quite strong in link. MSV2 + MR is quite hard hitting and being able to start 4" closer might give you some nice order-advantage (not terribly OP but just "nice"). 8) Forget about DZ defence, this list would fold easily against some strong ramo like Ko Dali or Fracta or even Van Zant. 9) Well CB succeed at least in a terms that I took 4 units which I had not taken in long-long time (or almost ever): KotHS, Konstanintos, FK (last time I've taken him few years ago). 10) Dart is super strong unit, which probably will be not that good due to being order starved on MO and you need those orders to accomplish objectives. 11) I had net-undermine as my Classified but i've decided it's better to spend orders on killing or antennas as even on WIP14 is too much of investment or orders for to little gain (at most single OP). 12) Good luck with MO. On LI IA will probably beat it (sorry but having 13 orders vs 10 is really no-brainer especially with this linked Breaker Combi on top of HMG and option for -9 enemy hacking). MO has chance if going first but them must (somewhat) put whole own link in CC with enemy link (everyone must find dance partner) and hope that IA has no HULANG. 13) Both TAK (and IA) has option for camo ML which then be quite dicy for MO and lock down it's only strength of fireteam My mistakes: 1) On turn 1 I should coordinate KotHS moves with Montesa (after killing Frontovicks HRL). 2) Position of my FK LT in SF on last turn could be better so he could lock down whole mid-table (forcing some f2f with Vet Kazak specialist) mayby killing him in SF ( but mayby not as I would be shooting on 8s and enemy kazak on 10s or 13s). 3) Leaving people on ARO duty. On one hand you have to somewhat put roadblocks for opponent but then it means that usually your ARO will die quite horribly. 4) TAK can easily take some hard hitting long range options (HMG Specnaz, AP HMG) with good mods and actually quite efficiently outshoot MO.
Sadly, this has been stated since day one but nothing official has been said (because admitting a mistake is bad I guess? so better to double down), and anyone using those terrible things known as point costs and math to make valid points where shouted down and told that CB never makes mistakes :D I appreciate you making an effort to show this in practice, and agree with your points. MO is still an awful sectorial for anything other than fun games, which is a shame as their minis and theme are simply awesome. Why do we not get any tactical sense or other such stuff, again? Big think goes here.
Probably because it's a fire and forget low skill solution that has the "tax" of requiring you to bring 4 order monkey for 9 points, of which you can splurge to upgrade 1 or 2 for a point each into specialists capable of completing objectives. While being in the army that can spam cheap camo like no tomorrow.
I think your list was too unfocused to be effective. Maybe this is an idea for a better list? :P Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 FATHER-KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 49) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Lieutenant (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 43) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army The father knight ML is a strong ARO and theres a doctor in the list for possible healing. The Hospitaller Haris provides some long range firepower. Despite TAK having easy access to sensor, the TOFOOS is still far too good to pass up. Just deploy it near your DZ and take the risk. The Sierra is there to help defend the DZ. This is just some quick thoughts on how to make a more effective list. If your facing TAK camo spam then fitting in some OS auxbots might be a good idea but that would make a different kind of list.
Thats not a bad list. Idea of dart was to have a strong assault piece who could assasin targets of opportunity turn 1. KotHS was go prevent LoL, and be quite sturdy objective grabber. Montesa was supposed to be a mobile piece, needing only single order to bounce beetween consoles. He should be able to counter the spam of specialists in TAK. Also your list is missing an EVO I think is essential for single group lists in this mission. Either way, thanks for feedback!
TAK is a horrible enemy, especially for MO. In my eyes, every cheap HMG is a big problem for MO and unfortunatly, TAK has a lot of them. But now, you have three valid options to gun them down and bring the rest of your list to the midfield, where it gets strong. If you don't want to field a TAG, the Hospitaller haris will fit and your problems with a valid LI-list are gone. So I would agree with Death, that your list was a little bit unfocussed. Listbuilding with MO is at least as hard as before Third Offensive, but now you have everything you need (of course nothing more than that!). A good strategy and some thoughts about the major weaknesses of your list are worth the time and the changes in listbuilding.
