For a second there I was having a hard time thinking of what I had in Haqq for Shock... Spoiler: And then this happened... Haqqislam ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 7 3 1 ZHAYEDAN (Marksmanship L2) Breaker Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) MUYIB (Minelayer) Rifle + Light Shotgun, D.E.P. Antipersonnel Mines, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) DJANBAZAN Shock Marksman Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29) HAKIM Submachine Gun, Chain-colt + 1 Nasmat A2 / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27) NASMAT A2 Electric Pulse. (0 | 4) BASHI BAZOUK Submachine Gun, Chain-colt / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) GOVAD Sniper Rifle / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) KRAKOT RENEGADE Red Fury, Chest Mine / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1 | 24) LIBERTO Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 8) JÄGER Submachine Gun + E/Mitter / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0.5 | 18) GROUP 2 10 AÏDA SWANSON 2 Submachine Gun, Viral Mines / Viral Pistol, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 24) BOUNTY HUNTER Red Fury / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21) KNAUF MULTI Sniper / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32) ODALISQUE Submachine gun, Contender, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22) ARMAND (Minelayer) MULTI Sniper, Nanopulser, Antipersonnel Mines / 2 Breaker Pistols, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (1.5 | 42) DRUZE (X Visor) Shock Marksman Rifle, Chain-colt / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) FASID Heavy Rocket Launcher, Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 45) ASAWIRA AP Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 41) ASAWIRA Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 35) ASAWIRA Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 43) GROUP 3 8 2 1 ASAWIRA Doctor Plus (MediKit) AP Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 45) ASAWIRA Lieutenant AP Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 41) ÁYYĀR (Surprise Shot L2) Shock Marksman Rifle / 2 Viral Pistols, CCW, Knife. (0 | 39) MAGHARIBA MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 78) MAGHARIBA PILOT Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. () HAWWA' Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27) FARZAN (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) FIDAY Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 31) HUNZAKUT Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21) TUAREG Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 33) KUM Rifle + Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 19) 13.5 SWC | 907 Points Open in Infinity Army Granted a lot of that is mines and CCW but still... I was pretty impressed.
You're also missing all the remotes who can get MML2 from your hackers, as well as all your units who have regular sniper rifles.
No the game is not too complex... but there is a lot to learn and memorize, and it has changed since I started. When I bought into this game during 2e its was mostly a 7-10 model format and we played YAMS. 3e and ITS changed that to a 2 group 12-15 models proposition. I could never fully adapt to these changes and my willingness to learn new material decreased with time, until I quit. Aristeia is more what I'm looking for now. Easy set up, cool dice, everything on the cards and dynamic fragging mixed with area control.
I did miss a few sniper rifles but I intentionally left out the remotes as those were recently considered to not contribute a significant amount to the number of shock profiles in the eyes of the individual I was replying to.
I won’t say, that the game is too complex, but it could definitely do with a streamlining of the rules. And by losing quite a few of those. Quite a lot of places, we have separate rules, that could have been accomplished via other rules e.g. Guardian could have just as easily been g:synch troopers. And what is the point in rules like Full Auto and Fatality, when you could just give a weapon with the appropriate lethality?
The problem here is that only one level in each of those skills could be addressed by making a new weapon (+1 B and +1 DAM, respectively). The change to the crit mechanic and the -3 MOD to opponent FtF would have to be added as new weapon rules, which amounts to the exact thing that you're complaining about.
So new rule or new weapons? I would rather like rule that works same for every weapon than another red fury or ginger breeze.
I think they have been shooting themselves in the foot with all these new skills that have totally unrelated skill levels. Full Auto L1 is literally dual wielding: why couldn't they just make it where you get a bonus to B for each level so it's easy to remember, and make it where dual wielding just gave you Full Auto L1? Full Auto L2 is just Mimetism with a fat guy behind you saying "ACKTUALLY its slightly different because it can't be countered by MSV". Fatality L1 (+1 DAM) was needed so they could have a lever to increase damage without making a new gun: I'm all for this, but would have preferred it was +X DAM for each level of Fatality, and they made the critical 1 ability named something else (like "Extra Critical L1").
Could be, but I wasn't making a statement one way or another about that. I was simply pointing out that making new weapons with those rules is the same thing as making new rules.
I think it makes more sense to say that it's like Suppression Fire without the Suppression-Fire-specific range bands. (Had to rephrase my initial response so that I wasn't that fat guy standing behind you...) Yeah, that probably would have been better. Though the varying effects with different levels of a skill started with Fireteams, I generally agree that it's not good rule-writing to have different effects on different levels.
And that does not apply if it's not a face to face (ex: two ARO and the full auto guy chose to ignore one of them, the one ignored has no mod). And on the contrary, it applies to any face to face, including dodge or close combat, so no, it's not like mimetism at all. It's more like martial arts modifiers, but for BS attacks.
That FAL2 can't be countered by MSV but only applies if they shoot you makes it quite different from Mimetism tbh. Also while there are some skills that are definitely nebulous and unnecessary (Mech Deployment and Guardian for example) most of them are somewhat to very varied and have a different feel to them. Feel is important, it makes the troops in the game distinct and fluffy. There's a reason we don't play with little unpainted silhouette cylinders with a name tag on the bottom.
If guard would work different and gave us feel of this giant beast with our trooper I bet nobody would complain about this rule. IMO ofc.
You missed a "same outcome" for reactive turn in that they must all ARO the same or you lose the +1B.
Honestly I feel like if you're going to make Puppetbots be essentially small fireteams then just say "they're a fireteam" and then list the exceptions, because then you don't have the situation where fringe fireteam rules queries are duplicated with fringe Puppetbots rules queries but not explained in exactly the same way so they work slightly differently in a manner which is silly.
Agreed. Right now, Guard doesn't feel any different than MA with a different table. Same problem with Protheion, really. I'd want to start with "Guard gives +1B in CC (as if there were two models in B2B)" and then adds additional modifiers from there. Dunno what those modifiers would be, but that's where I'd start.
This. So much this. Fewer skills that do basically the same thing. Multiple levels of a skill do the same thing more, not give a completly different ability. That should be a new skill. And in the same category of issues, do away with nested skills. If a Morat has Veteran then give him Veteran, if he has religious give him religious, etc. Once these skills give only specific bonuses you can then get rid of the different painted guns. I mean what's a Red Fury even supposed to be? Because I keep thinking of someone with a Spitfire painted red. Those troops can just get the skill that gives shock. Either that or go with all amunition types for all guns. Combi Rifle/Standard, Combi Rifle/Shock, Combi Rifle/Viral. These do not need to be a billion different guns.
I feel a surge of pain every time something like that comes up in any game. A single technical writer to sort the rules into a better structure before print would solve this.
