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List brainstorming thread

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Jonno, Nov 29, 2018.

  1. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    They can still get messed up by E/M grenades, especially if you can hit more than one at a time. Of course, flamers are a big threat to HI links as well. And yeah, its worst for Zuyongs.
     
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  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Because neither of those sectorials mandates that you build your list with all of your mission critical models exclusively vulnerable to that fireteam. Or they have other means that are common in any of their lists of solving these issues such as non-HI skirmishers, grenades types other than stun and such.
     
  3. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I think this bears repeating. I'm honestly still not sure how to make IA work into Transmission Matrix given that we can't even make a core with 5 unhackable models. Even making a link team that's hard to hack doesn't really fix the issue of taking an assload of uncontested hacking AROs in that mission.

    EDIT: That's a lie, I actually have an idea I'm workshopping but it's truly the epitome of going full retard to solve a problem.
     
    #163 Triumph, Dec 11, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
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  4. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, some of the ITS missions are poorly balanced. Theres certainly some missions that are just NOPE for NCA as well.
     
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  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    That mission depends a whole lot on what density of hackers your opponent chooses to take. If they go base-line (which around here means an AHD and a KHD), it's fully possible to simply roll a Haidao into the Matrix and face to face them with high chance of winning. An alternative is to go more all-in that your typical opponent and rely on superior AROs that the Tinbots will give you (a couple of Shang-Ji or a core of 4 Zhanshi HD with a Zuyong tinbot should do it if you cautious move in - there's basically no hacker that'll want to take that ARO by activating) the only problem with that is that typically you'll not want to activate them again because a Zhanshi with a tinbot might be superior to most AROs, but they are also highly susceptible to the same mechanic in return.

    I mean, there are ways, but I am getting disenchanted by the sectorial because it's so hard to make lists. I'm stuck having problems taking the units I need to bring where in ISS or other sectorials I've just built lists for fun I get stuck having to choose which models I want.

    This list is so bad, but you can see roughly in what direction I'm going
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    SHÀNG JÍ (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower + TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0.5 | 43)
    Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 (Minelayer) MULTI Sniper, Antipersonnel Mines / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    LIÚ XĪNG Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 32)
    LIÚ XĪNG Spitfire / Pistol, CC Weapon. (2 | 39)
    ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)

    6 SWC | 283 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #165 Mahtamori, Dec 11, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
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  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I don't think IA is great, it's pretty one dimensional being all about brute force and what's the scariest link team you can put together. It's serviceable, but so far I've found Vanilla to be the bigger winner in terms of the new units the sectorial has brought to the table. Giving me 2 more camo units and freeing up the Guilang options has been a massive boost when paired with Lunah buffs.

    Would've been nice if CB didn't fuck up with the Shang Ji and Guijia, might've given IA a bit more in the flexibility department but guess we'll just have to wait another 3-5 years to see them buffed maybe.
     
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  7. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Now that's a novel idea. Spam AROs with the Zhanshi to try and lockdown an Infowar heavy list. If we take that idea and work with it, improve the quality of the hacking AROs, and instead push the midfield fighting onto the FD1 camo Daoying and tell the Liu Xing to fuck off to the garbage can where he belongs I think we actually get something that might be workable.


    Invincible Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    SHÀNG JÍ Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower + TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 40)
    Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 (Minelayer) MULTI Sniper, Antipersonnel Mines / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    DĀOYĪNG Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    DĀOYĪNG (Minelayer) MULTI Sniper, Antipersonnel Mines / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    PANGGULING Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    If you're playing into a faction with relatively pissweak infowar you can always just take your other Zuyong Pain Train list instead, and keep this as a backup in case you're rolling into Nomads or something awful.
     
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  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I'm specifically avoiding sticking a Haidao KHD in there simply because of ARO skill declaration restrictions. He'll be limited in which ARO he can declare :)
     
  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Oh right, the fucking retarded hacking skills being different skills in ARO I completely forgot about that. Naturally they haven't fixed that by now but I guess that means we get to put another Chaiyi in the list.


    I don't know if that's something we can really avoid given it's probably a side effect of playing a sectorial saturated with expensive profiles. On the other hand while not very flexible IA are a very easy to pilot sectorial, whether that's a good thing is up to interpretation.

    To put it in perspective we had a tournament recently. One player brought IA and his list was utterly pants on head retarded, I cannot stress that enough. 4 man core link team, no KHD support, a random Paramedic Zhanshi instead of a Doctor, it was a total hot mess. Unsurprisingly he got fucking destroyed. His girlfriend 10-0'd him round one and it was all downhill from there, ended up wooden spooning with no wins at all. Dude spent all day getting ass blasted by people.

    Now he's traveling to a satellite event in January and is committed to taking IA to the event so at the weekly Infinity meet up at the LGS we've come together to try and help him out. I printed out a very basic Zuyong core list, gave it to him and a crash course of how it's supposed to work.

    Then he asked to play the guy who ended up winning the tournament mentioned earlier. I helped him deploy his stuff so he didn't get raped going second, then left him to play my own game with a Smart Missile meme list. His opponent is a good guy and helped coach him through the game a bit, mostly in regards to how to pilot a link team around and not get it blown up accidentally by AROs but in the end he managed to win the game.

    That's a pretty big step up from wooden spoon to actually being able to have a decent game with the tournament winner who regularly posts top 3 results at events and I think the fact that IA has access to a link that is both strong in terms of brute force potential, and forgiving in the sense that it brings alot of extra orders and resilient in the sense that you can constantly refill it with spare troopers like it's a cheap ass line Light Infantry link makes the sectorial alot easier to pilot than normal. You can't do fancy shenanigans with it, on the other hand it's really hard to fuck up what it's supposed to do because what it's supposed to do is take a whole bunch of orders and apply bullets to solve the problem.
     
  10. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I'm trying to make a list that's like an all-comers or ready for anything type list. I'm having trouble trying to decide on which list. I'm thinking one would be for going against non-hacking forces and the other for hacking.

    The non-hacking would have a Mech Engineer to help out any immobilized troops.

    The hacking one has the EVO Remote to be able to use Reboot.

    I know the second list is only 9 regular orders. But I think this will be okay. Also, knowing my opponents they are going to be going crazy thinking there's a hidden or jump troop!

    List against non-hacking armies
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    5 man fireteam
    TAI SHENG (Chain of Command) Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 49)
    ZÚYǑNG Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (2 | 36)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    ZÚYǑNG Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 29)
    HǍIDÀO Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)

    Duo fireteam
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    ZÚYǑNG Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 29)

    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    List against hacking armies
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]9
    5 man fireteam
    TAI SHENG (Chain of Command) Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 49)
    ZÚYǑNG Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (2 | 36)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    ZÚYǑNG Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 29)
    HǍIDÀO Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)

    Duo fireteam
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    ZÚYǑNG (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 28)

    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29) PANGGULING Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  11. SpectralOwl

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    It's still worth it for the ability to ignore Firewall on your Brain Blast, since that team will so often be working out of a Repeater net. I ran a modified version of that link for two games, with two Zhanshi Hackers, Haidao KHD, Shang Ji Tinbot and a Son-Bae for normal AROs. Turned out surprisingly strong when combined with a REM-heavy front line and a Zhencha AHD on a roof.
     
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  12. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom

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    @Triumph 's post pretty well describes IA. Yeah, this army is easy to pilot, good in return.

    I'm liking this army. Soild, hit hard like a brick filled truck. Who can jeer at our loss of JSA now. Hahaha
     
  13. IAGO242

    IAGO242 Executive Officer

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    I hate Riot Grrls so much, they are broken for their price. Why the hell are they so cheap? They are the best HI link in the game.

    Anyway, I ran the version 2 of that list, and It's hard to say what went wrong as I had a couple critical crits against me. Ie first two orders toolbox remote gets adhesive launched by a Jaguar, then another jaguar in a link explodes my poor Zuyong Tac HMG... I went first and the link was held up by a moran hiding in a building and ARO Nomad hackers. Then the Haido KHD gets 2x red rums through to a nomad killer hacker but it passed every save! 4x!

    So, In a new version I think Ill change it up and run this instead: Less orders unfortunately and no good use of LT Lvl 2.
    As you can see, I'm really trying to get the Hac tao to work with a strong HI link team.

    As in the other list the Hac tao didn't do much except kill a jaguar, I can open with pumping orders into the KHD Hac Tao hunt out hackers and do some damage before the link can move up later. I needed I can spend at least one Tac Awarness order on the Zuyong HMG to clear the way for the Hac Tao too. The main ARO is now the Zuyong Missile launcher. Anyway you were very right that I needed a Zhanshi Engineer, @ Triumph...


    Elite v3
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    ZÚYǑNG Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 29)
    ZÚYǑNG Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (2 | 36)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    HAC TAO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 67)
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)

    4 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  14. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Models get point discounts if they have the Frenzy/Impetuous trait, it's the same for Hospitalers.

    Which then becomes a problem when you are allowed to bypass all of the drawbacks you're supposed to suffer for the discount by linking them and just gaining new buffs instead.

    Makauls, which judging by your name you're familiar with, are another long time offender of abusing this system.

    It's a fucking retarded system but CB refuse to fix it. So the rest of us just have to work with what we've got.
     
  15. IAGO242

    IAGO242 Executive Officer

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    It would be so so easy to keep Riot Grrls points as they are for Nomads, and increase them a few points for Baukunin.
     
  16. Stuffist

    Stuffist Well-Known Member

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    Linking does not prevent you from losing the possibility to take partial cover when impetuous though. Not that I defend the price drop on linkable frenzy/impetuous HI, but I wanted to be fair.

    I just wrote bullshits, my bad.
     
    #176 Stuffist, Dec 12, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
  17. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Yes it does. Linking makes troopers non impetuous. Kuang Shi Makaul etc can gain cover when linked

    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Fireteams_and_Fury_Characteristic
     
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  18. Stuffist

    Stuffist Well-Known Member

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  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It might be bullshits as far as the rules are concerned, but it shouldn't be bullshits :(
     
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  20. Ariwch

    Ariwch Tournament benthotic lurker

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    More IA mass lists for the god of mass lists!

    ────────────────────
    GROUP 1
    SON-BAE Yaókòng Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17)
    ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    ZHANSHI HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 19)
    ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
    Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)

    GROUP 2
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    ──────────────────
    GROUP 1
    ZHANSHI Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    SON-BAE Yaókòng Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
    LIÚ XĪNG (Specialist Operative) MULTI Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 38)
    PANGGULING Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
    WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    GROUP 2
    MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    5 SWC | 297 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    ─────────────────

    GROUP 1
    ZHANSHI Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 15)
    ZHANSHI Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    SON-BAE Yaókòng Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
    ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)

    GROUP 2
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    TAI SHENG Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenades / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 45)
    WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    4.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
    :smiley:
     
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