Assuming it's going to remain a Zhanshi, what type of skills and equipment do you think would be helpful to IA or Vanilla? Personally I hate the taking of all specialist rolls. My personal Fav. Boosted CC to 16 1 GUĬ FĒNG Spec-Ops (12 XP) (CC:16, Martial Arts L3, CH: Mimetism) Combi Rifle, Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife, EXP CC Weapon, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 13) 0 SWC | 13 Points Open in Infinity Army
That is a novel setup, but there's very little point in the AP CCW (unless you're fighting ARM 8+) Personally I'm somewhat partial to the Mimetic Sniper Doctor.
This one is tricky. On the one hand Zhanshi don't have a SpecOps yet. On the other, with them being mostly a sideshow in the Invincible Army there is little reason to use them as the SpecOps base. With ISS, CG links were one of the central links. With IA, just getting a full core Zhanshi link requires Wildcards. Zhanshi just aren't a mainstay in IA unless you're specifically running a core of them and they're arguable only there because CB didn't want IA to go full Aleph/CA and build us a line trooper remote of our own. So in that case, Zuyong make a lot of sense... But if we look at things and ask ourselves "what are we likely to get in a Dire Foes box", well, we already have Tai Sheng and she basically straight up is a Yu Jing SpecOps (in the Dire Foes sense). Funky loadouts, useful skills, linkable with the primary core, and a specialist. So if this follows along the lines of the Dire Foes release mirroring the unit option for the list... I can't imagine what a Zuyong SpecOps would look like that isn't just stepping on Tai Sheng's toes out of the gate. I mean, the link is lacking in ARO-based and defensive options, so they could go down that route (though slapping perimeter weapons on it might be too samey with the CG SpecOps). Making it a Minelayer with Engineer and maybe an SMG/Panzerfaust load would certainly be a bit different (and would be handy for hiding the Daoying a bit better). That said, I think I like the idea of the Haidao as our SpecOps the most. It is in the right price range, isn't too stacked stat-wise (so it has room to improve), and the profile itself is already kind of a flexible toolkit unit. It has wider linking options as well, which is nice. If for some reason 2W HI SpecOps are verboten, then the Haidao would seem a likely candidate since it falls within the same spectrum as the funky ones Haqqislam got back when Paradiso released. But at the same time... The Haidao isn't actually part of the IA proper either, so it kind of suffers from the same background issues as the Zhanshi (albeit less egregiously because at least it's HI).
I think we're getting Spec-Ops and Dire Foes mixed up here, I thought this thread was about the customisable trooper you could modify with XP, rather than a hypothetical Gui Feng character like an Invincible Army Xi Zhuang.
If we're talking about the user-modifiable SpecOps, I'm still hoping it will be the Zuyong. I'm expecting it will be the Zanshi, because letting Zuyong be SpecOps means that we're going to need faction or even sectorial-specific skills trees. Those skill trees would be page-consuming in whatever book they appear in, though relatively easy to implement in Army. I'd really love to see a Zuyong Dire Foe, in addition to Tai Sheng.
Since we have Tai Sheng, I wouldn’t mind if the dire foe was a different troop, but per precedent we’d need that troop as a spec op. That being said, Haqq uses both Hafza and Muyibs spec ops so there is also precedent for “wacky” profiles. Now, I doubt we’d get two new spec op profiles, though one isn’t unreasonable.
Kind of, but the two are also kind of inextricable as well. Each of the Dire Foes is meant to be basically a SpecOps of their given faction. Xi Zhuang is an example of a Gui Feng that happens to be based off of a Celestial Guard base just as Yuriko Oda was our Keisotsu-based Gui Feng. So if/when we get a Dire Foes release linked to the Invincible Army, then it will be indicative of what we can expect to see of our generic Gui Feng options if those rules ever get re-done. Personally, I'd love it if they took the concept of Wildcards to heart and just straight up divorced the whole concept of SpecOps from just being one of the bog standard infantry profiles of a given faction. I'd love for Gui Feng to actually be a unit unto itself that then gets the hypothetical campaign system cruft laid over it. Stat them up like a normal unit, give them AVA1 and IA-style one-off Wildcard status. Give them one "campaign" basic loadout and a handful of load outs that can be used in-game as normal units. Then tailor the equipment and skill trees to each faction based on the base profile. Because as of now, only Haqq really has flavourful SpecOps profiles while everyone else just has basic arse units with no real character (which makes the generic "these guyz iz totally bad asssssssssssssss" fluff even worse when they're literally just a Zhanshi in fancy dress). But who knows what they'll do with SpecOps in the future. The original implementation was kind of pants and feels like it just needs a general re-write from the ground up.
My intention was that the thread was about the 12XP Gui-Feng, but if people want to discuss Dire Foes as well, I'm only happy to participate :)
Who would our dire foe be against? I can see Tunguska against OSS. I guess we could go a classic pano vs yu jing.
Wouldn't it likely be the new PanO character? They're both characters for the line HI of their respective factions.
Now I think about it, there is a precedent for non-Line Infantry Spec-Ops, if only from Dire Foes. Xi Zhuang is a Shang Ji Gui Feng, not even from an Imperial Service unit, who still gets linked with Celestial Guards. Maybe we could get a Zuyong Gui Feng with Zhanshi linkability? Or the Yan Huo Gui Feng, for when "special operations" means "we swapped the ammo in the HRMC for something from R&D and stuffed it in Zone of Control of several nervous Garrison Troops"?
Riiight. I was under the impression there were a Regular Dire Foes. CA having 3 when most are on 2 is a bit on the high side. Varuna vs Invincible Dire Foe confirmed? Oh oh oh. Helot vs Libertos mission characters! Dire Foes 8: A Fishy F8! Liberto Gui-Feng confirmed!
Would be nice, though I wouldn't expect Libertos in IA ;) But a Zhanshi DF would grant that 5th fireteam member.
Tbh, there's sufficient wildcards that 4 Zhanshi isn't really a problem, as far as I'm concerned. Not for 300pts and not for lists without double Guijia at least. However, if this 5th Zhanshi comes with mines, Koalas or similar, then that changes everything, but for different reasons.
