AP HMG feels like an improvement for most people. More CC, DA weapon and religious troop in a TAG feels like bloat to me. EDIT: my miske, CC stays the same, so yeah, that DA weapon doesn't feel very useful...
DA is useful for when the local joker runs a V:Dogged warband through a smoke screen and into CC with your TAG. It's situational to be sure, but useful, at least until CB brings back the TAG Overrun rule.
Or when you get stuck in CC wiht HI. The TAGs all actually have pretty solid CC stats, they just dont tend to do much damage when they do hit, vs armoured targets. TAGs that do multi roll CC however have to be treated with a certain level of respect by all but dedicated CC specialists
Zuyong is BS13 PH12 ARM3, ORC is BS14 PH14 ARM4 and 9pts more. Pretty sure BS13->14 is about 4pts all by itself, but ARM is overcosted.
And for only 3pt generates a second order...... Cheaper than a Netrod, doesnt take space in the group and spamable
I don't think ARM is as overcosted as people say, you just can't typically make tactical decisions based on passing ARM rolls, unless you've got multiple W or S.
ORC vs. Zuyong is just a brutal comparison. Accounting for everything the Zuyong is armed with (using the same numbers ORCs seem to use for stats) it should be ~4 points more expensive, or the ORCs should be ~4 points cheaper. An ORC pays 9 points over a Zuyong for +1 BS, +2 PH, +1 ARM (~8-9 points right there) while simultaneously -1 WIP and trading a single pistol for 2 Breaker pistols (Kinematica is basically free, so ~2-3 points). It's not even like they're Swiss Guard and have CH:TO costs scaling with their BS to account for the difference. So basically, I don't look at Yujing units any more and treat all whining about their HI being anything other than awesome as completely baseless.
I'm less bothered by that given just how good the Kamau HMG is. (further to the ORC "issue", the Guarda de Assalto pays 3 points for +2 CC, +1 BS, +1 WIP, HFT and D-charges (~7 points) while giving up 1 ARM (~2 points), so I'm very much leaning towards ORCs being overcosted somewhere)
Yeah, this hits the nail right on the head. I want to love the ORC, and I think that they ARE going to have a role to play in Varuna especially, but their costing is just brutal.
Compare price to table effectiveness. Not to mention that +1ARM is more expensive than Mimetism (Mimetism is 2pts on HI, see Moblots), and Mimetism is far more effective at preventing a wound. I dunno. A Wu Ming is -1BS -1PH +1WIP and No Cube compared to an ORC, and is 5 points cheaper (comparing HMG to HMG) And Wu Ming are not considered overpriced.
We know that TA is worth 4pts, so compare with the non-TA Zuyong HMG. Wu Ming is an even better comparison, as WM are wearing the older Invincible armor (which has much closer stats to the ORC). Or, if you want to be ugly about it, compare the Zuyong to the Wu Ming. -1CC, -1PH, -1ARM, and trading Cube for Dual Breaker Pistols is worth -5 points.
jesus wept. We Just got a BS14 ARM4 2W HI that rocks a HMG and sits in a Fusilier link (who are tied with regulars for the best Line infantry in the game) for B5 BS17 and you bloody complain? Even better it can either go it alone or act as the "6th" man to a Kamau MSR Fusilier link Those stat bumps are amazing and totally worth it over the Zuyong even at the cost difference. The ORC is amazing now and really fills a fantastic role as a HI point man for a LI link. I just have to shake my head at this and seriously wonder what a lot of you are thinking Oh And it does this in both ASA and VIRD so in most of the sectorials its actually a part of
I totally agree with what you're saying, but just wanted to point out that I actually prefer the ORC in ASA versus Varuna. ORC + 4 Regulars is a valid ASA link team while ORC + 4 Fusiliers is not. You're either forced into taking another ORC or a Kamau as "filler". expensive filler. boo I say, boo!
I think you are missunderstanding my links here mike Try this man VIRD2 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 6 ORC (Varuna Div.) (Multiterrain: Aquatic/Jungle, Stealth) HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 45) KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32) KAMAU Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22) FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) 3.5 SWC | 135 Points Open in Infinity Army The Idea is that the Kamau is the defensive piece and you flip the ORC into the Link either when it dies, when you want to go ham or when your going second and need it to live. Its not about choosing the ORC OR the Kamau Heress the ASA Version Ive been running that does equally well IMO and is just as filth in different ways, it trades of the raaw power of the Kamau for some additional in close protection and buffs in certain missions. EDIT: As you point out it requires the second Kamau. at 10 pts more, and while Id enjoy the kamau Lgl imensely 10 pts for a specialist (run the paramedic for your ORC) is a minor cost increase given the capabilities Shock Army of Acontecimento ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 6 ORC HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 44) REGULAR (Sapper) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 22) REGULAR (Minelayer, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 14) REGULAR (Minelayer, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 14) REGULAR Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) REGULAR Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) 4.5 SWC | 118 Points Open in Infinity Army These links are both about getting the firepower of the excellent offensive ORC alongside the defensive piece in the Kamau and the Sapper/Bagh-Mari on the table for cheap with little to no compromise of their effectiveness of the links roles IA just cant do that Further to the above point, the ORC is the first time weve been able to get a 5 man HI link outside of MO. Until now PanO has had to rely on its unbuffed HI to take out the opponents Buffed defensive links. Now we dont,, now we run our HI brutallity beautiful HI wiht all the support and orders of a LI link, a BS 12 Scoring LI link. And people complain
