Yes, yes it is. 12 orders in 9 models. While I totally get the Zhencha's 'niche' (tougher Guilang, for even more camo markers in the midfield), what gap do you see the Liu Xing filling?
The one gap I see it filling is being able to enter places a Tiger could not. A handful of mines in the enemy DZ could easily shut down a Tiger. A Liu Xing will facetank that mine and proceed to continue creating avant garde street art in the enemy back line.
I was very tempted to answer this question myself because I though "Face tank a mine" was the obvious answer. I'm glad I was right.
As a couple of people have pointed out already, getting stuck in when an opportunity presents itself. A filthy warband at a corner stops a tiger dead as trying to face tank a mine or DTW is a huge risk. I'm looking at a liu xing to create some chaos in my opponents table side, which a follow up tiger will then mop up. Explode is in the back pocket for T2 attack run, once you've maybe hacked/shot the most threatening hackers. The zhencha's climbing plus is also huge to me. It means he can start and or finish in places which would be too order intensive for a guilang. midfield camo gets eaten up round my parts.
Well came back here when I recieved the IAmobile update... It's getting real crowded in Yu Jing again, with some new interesting units too. I was hoping for some units I could use my old JSA models as, and something I got...sort of. Overall not disappointed, but I do find strange a couple of details, like no shock immunity on the Zencha; tac awereness on zu yongs (could have been a shanji thing to make them distinct); daofei not in IA etc. I think I'll start converting some units to be "silhouette all-rounders", like turning a Yan Huo into a Mowang cross of sorts, since it's highly unlikely I'll field both at a given time for example. Already have some "expensive specialist LI" count-as etc. On the units...Daoying seems rather interesting, a different yet similar raiden for me, with many perks for the loss of the template. My model is a converted thorakitai with a ML...well, whatever, it'll be good. Zencha isn't bad, has some cool things going for it as well as some drawbacks, a unit that I'm really looking forward to try out. HI bounty hunter is perfect for this role and I guess with that I'll need to make some more camo tokens anyway as it's getting real crowded just ahead of my DZ with those fishy freedom fighters too. Double guilang and camo shenanigans for the win. Mowang is solid, I do like him, especially NCO/daoying combo, but in vanilla you can still run the Su Jian...which is still far better overall for me. Was kinda hoping for a Hulang chain variant so I could use my domaru model, but you can't have it all. Nice unit, but not really my cup of tea. Really expensive for a 0 SWC non specialist trooper that is not super resilient. Haidaos are another mildly interesting pick but not overpowered. My converted karakuri will be restiled to match this one probably. Liu Xing are too interesting, potentailly lethal, still though jump infantry: unreliable at best for me. Will use them though for giggles. Pang FTO...nothing special. I think I'll continue with my LI "kitchen sink lists" with a couple of tweaks here and there (daoying and zencha mainly) while converting some "universal proxie units".
single combat-group have-all-specialists all-rangebands lists, nothing particularly thought out but solid reliable etc...for me at least.
Thanks, missed it first time around! Crowded skill section...hehe...well, nicer then! And Mowang still looses to me to the su jian overall even considering the better resilience due to mimetism...uhm...might need to try it out ;)
Mowang is more resilient. Both have ARM 5|BTS 6, 2W+NWI with the Mowang having Mimetism vs the Su-Jian's G:RP for potentially 'surviving' three damage hits (by not using NWI and dropping to second G:RP Unconscious state for Engineer fixes - but it's quite niche). Su-Jian is obviously much more mobile and packs basically the same weapons (Spitfire, Panzerfaust, LFT vs Spitfire, Flammenspear) but it does have a higher risk of 'running off' on its own, whereas the Mowang is more likely to be close to its buddies for mutual support. I think the Mowang is fine for Vanilla, but it does have stiff competition compared to in IA, where its strengths are less common.
Mowang vs su-jian vs daofeï isn't an easy choice to make in vanilla, but they all have their own strenght. Mowang's biggest boon to vanilla is his 1swc red-fury profile, as it allow some crazy heavy weapons lists. I mean, just look at that: Yu Jing ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 9 4 MÓWÁNG (NCO) Red Fury, Akrylat-Kanone / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1 | 52) DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29) YĀN HUǑ Hyper-Rapid Magnetic Cannon / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 54) HAC TAO Missile Launcher, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 65) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 6 SWC | 233 Points Open in Infinity Army And of course, that's just an example, if this is more your jam you can replace one of the big guy by, say, a rui-shi and a husong. Considering we have access to the kuang-shis in vanilla, going ham on heavy weaponry is never a matter of points or being able to afford enough orders to make them work, you just happen to reach the 6swc cap way too fast. THIS is where the Mowang shines: thanks to him you can have all the big guns you want, all the support you need and all the orders you can get your hands on!
So far the big winner for me out of the Vanilla stuff has been the Guilang. Having the Zencha around has freed up the Guilangs to play with their other profiles including the MSR.
I'm looking into Duo a bit more in Vanilla and it doesn't look like you can mix them. Just because the Shang Ji is a wildcard in IA doesn't mean he can mix in Vanilla.
Yeah, outside of the other two profiles being expensive and lackluster, the SMG/Mines profile is basically a heavy Guilang. It can take a bit more heat in some cases, suffers a bit against camo units, but has better ARO potential via suppression as well as good coordinated fire via the DEP. That said, part of me wishes it had a Minelayer profile since it feels like IA is really short on low-cost SWC bumps. I find myself often coming in 0.5-1 SWC under in IA lists and more profiles like Minelayer, or things with Panzerfausts (to name a couple) would certainly help it actually utilize the SWC discounts it gets on Zuyong and Tai Sheng. Because all too often I get to 10 orders, still have points left, but not enough to upgrade something to an SWC profile. Or worse, in the case of the Zhencha the "upgraded" profiles are strict downgrades. Give up a good active turn weapon, a good ARO, the D.E.P. and mines while paying more? Aw. Hell. Naw. It's funny, IA feels over-stuffed in some profiles while many of the specialists feel like they're short just one or two profiles to round the selection out and give the list some flexibility in builds. The list could use something like a Zhencha Minelayer, a Hulang with a Panzerfaust, or even just a few alternate Zuyong Tactical Awareness profiles to offer an alternative to a 2nd HMG profile when you take Tinbot Tai Sheng along. Because after the initial "big ticket" purchases, most of the SWC spends range from outright bad to inefficient. All too often I find myself finishing up a list, realizing I'm way under on SWC only to end up with a very samey list when I rectify the issue because my options to upgrade intelligently are so limited. It's to the point where the Zuyong HMG may as well be 2 SWC because the extra SWC it frees up goes unused unless I take pains to build a list to fill the gap in (at which point, I end up falling in to a rut of samey lists). Coming from vanilla and ISS where it is almost too easy to fill up SWC, it doesn't feel great to struggle to hit 6 SWC (and more often than not, it is 5.5 SWC at best just so you can cover the roles you need). I know that hitting 6 SWC isn't needed (especially since the discounts on things like Zuyong HMG means you're technically undercosted), but if the SWC discounts are meant to be a strength of IA, then it is a strength that is often going to waste in a great many lists. A few more profile options wouldn't hurt in adding a bit of diversity to IA list building is all I'm saying. Even just a spare Zhencha and Hulang profile alongside maybe one more Zuyong TA profile with a good ARO weapon (Missile Launcher TA would be nice).
@Durandal Thank you for taking the time to write out an informative post. It was well worth the read.
I think the boarding shotgun has a place. But agree it's both expensive and weirdly loses weapons. That really is testament to how stupidly cheap the SMG is though...
